Re: Passing URL parameters, how to hide

Hi Guys Just to jump in here. I really need to disagree with any method of hiding the 'record id' How is hiding the record ID in the hidden input any safer than in the URL...simple answer: it isn't...it will prevent the unsophisticated user from changing the value, but its not even challenge to a seasoned user. Same goes for cookies. To be entirely honest, there is no real reason not to use the url to pass data, IF the data is not sensitive. For sensitive data, sessions are the best thing to use. HIdden fields are good only to keep the users from accidently changing the id to something. This doesn't negate the need to validate the incoming data, ALL incoming data needs to be validated and exceptions need to be handled. So if the user changes the id number to something else, then a message should appear saying 'no record found' A better approach to securing sensitive data is to use the database and to develop a system whereby usiers can only access their own limited data. There is a little more data involved here (like storing a user_id with the row) This user_id can then be associated with users record (profile) and that profile could be used to determine whether the user can view/edit/access the particular record. The user's profile is stored in a session (or it could be validated every time there is db interaction) and those values determine exactly which records the user can do anything with. You can build profiles that could llimit the access to data belonging to a particular group of users, a particular region of the country or to a single location, depending on the structure of the compnay and the desired goals of the system. Designing this is tricky and its a lot of work, but when complete, its portable (you can use the framework in many applications) and its secure. Basically you build an admin area, whereby some trusted users have admin privileges and assign those to various users. The permissions themselves are simply yes/no fields, assigned with checkboxes or radio buttons. Bastien Koert

From: M Saleh EG <m.saleh.eg@gmail.com> Reply-To: M Saleh EG <m.saleh.eg@gmail.com> To: Stuart Felenstein <stuart4m@yahoo.com> CC: Jasper Howard <jasper@velocity7.com>, php-db@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP-DB] Passing URL parameters, how to hide Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:19:32 +0400 1-So I'm going to ask, how does PHP stop a URL from being changed ? Are there specific functions that block that type of activity ? I said :" I personaly dont recommand using url parameters for passing record ids, i'd rather use hidden inputs, sessions, or even cookies but never URI querystrings for record ids. " 2-Stuart Felenstein askes : "Can you explain a bit further how an hidden input might work ?" I'll answer ur first question here. The addresses on the browsers are in control of the users. you cant control that. wat's on the client side is only controlled by the client which is the browser. So u cant stop changing the address,( the work around is using a popup that wouldnt show the address but still a person with abit of knowledge would figure out openning a new window hisself n entering the address so it aint practical). Instead you can validate the ID that is comming from the URI. How's that? alright, Your check the ID weather with encryption or not if it matches with the ID of the user logged in show the form if not that's it show the error page. Ur 2nd question.. Okay .. how would u use the hidden inputs? with hidden inputs.. I mean the form hidden elements (<input type="hidden" name="id" value="recordID" />) so instead of having hyperlinks pointing to the form page use a form with submit btns that post the hidden id to the page that shows the user forms. That is by fetching the recordID by post. Hope it's useful. On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 01:20:42 -0700 (PDT), Stuart Felenstein <stuart4m@yahoo.com> wrote: See my response interspersed: --- M Saleh EG <m.saleh.eg@gmail.com> wrote:

You should always avoid passing Record IDs through URL parameters. Use form Hidden fields instead!

I agree. Even as someone with limited experience. That is why I'm trying to figure out the right way to do it. The record ID is hidden in form itself. The way to get to the update form for that record is via a hyperlink. I'm not sure how to get the user to the update form without the hyperlink or how to hide the id part of the url parameter in the link.

In your case, when ur selecting the users form data from the record check if it's the same user if not then if he tries to change the ID from the URI Parameter just block it.

Yes, I think this is the way to go. And I'm halfway there, in that , if someone changed the id and brought up another users record, and they attempted to make changes the update would fail. So I'm going to ask, how does PHP stop a URL from being changed ? Are there specific functions that block that type of activity ?

I personaly dont recommand using url parameters for passing record ids, i'd rather use hidden inputs, sessions, or even cookies but never URI

querystrings > for record ids. Can you explain a bit further how an hidden input might work ?

Better use of URI querystrings would be for logic, section, category, decision, options rather than important data such as ur table primary keys!

Agreed!

Hope this is useful.

Very useful, thank you! Stuart

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:32:07 -0700, Jasper Howard <jasper@velocity7.com> wrote:

When I created a business management script for

the business I work for, it

was important that ids in url's were encrypted.

What I did was create a code

for each item that needed one. My encryption table

fields looked something

like: enc_id, encryption, table, id where enc_id

was the unique identifier

in this table, encryption was the 14 character

code, table was the table

that the encrypted data was stored in, and id was

the id of the encrypted

data. That was you can pass the 14 digit code in

the html, then when you

need to use it in a php script you can just make a

function that returns the

data from the database from the encryption code.

For extra security (since

someone could just remember the encryption code) I

added a cron job script

that changed the encryptions every midnight. If

anyone thinks something like

this would work for them, some thing to remember

is that you need to make

sure that when you add an item to the encryption

table in the db that each

code is unique. --

-------------------------------------------------------------->>

Jasper Howard :: Database Administration ApexEleven Web Design 1.530.559.0107 http://www.ApexEleven.com/

<<--------------------------------------------------------------

"Stuart Felenstein" <stuart4m@yahoo.com> wrote in

message

news:20040920221627.4201.qmail@web13524.mail.yahoo.com...

I'm restarting this post. I thought I was out

of the

woods, but not. Here situation, in most of my update forms which involve 1 record, passing a session variable ,

usually

the users ID is enough. No URL param passing. Not so in two update forms I have where there

are

multiple records for each user. If I pass a

session

variable it only brings up the first record. So unless I am missing something, I must pass the

record

ID via a URL parameter. That works just great,

but

the problems lies in the fact, that all anyone

would

need to do is change recordID=1 to recordID=2

and they

can see someone elses record, which is supposed

to

confidential. Now I've looked at sights like Monster, Amazon,

Ebay,

and tried changing the recordID in the URL area,

but

it either ignores my change or kicked back an

invalid

ID. This is even if I remove the other ID's from the

line.

So, I'm sure this has been dealt with more, I

don't

have the foggiest clue yet though how I can

implement

something that either hides, or prevents a user

from

going through records in the database by

changing the

id number. Appreciate any suggestions or ideas. Thank you, Stuart --- Stuart Felenstein <stuart4m@yahoo.com>

wrote:

Turned out "hiding" the id wasn't necessary as

the

awaiting update page can grab the session ID. I wasn't thinking. Sorry Stuart --- John Holmes <holmes072000@charter.net>

wrote:

Stuart Felenstein wrote:

I'm still confused over one aspect of URL

parameters.

As far as a form passing data back to the

server,

I

understand about get, post and replace. Here is my problem. I have an update form. User is logged in

to the

system and needs to update whatever

information.

Right now I'm including in the link the

user's

ID,

so

when they arrive at the update page, their

record

will

be displayed. The problem is all one has to do is change

the

ID

number in the URL parameter in the update

page

and

you

can go to someone else's record. How do programmers generally get around

this ? I

must

be missing something.

How do you identify the user once they are

logged

in? There should be some way to relate the logged in user to

valid

records they can see. Then, if they request an invalid record, you

can

show them an error page. Hiding the ID isn't going to fix

anything.

-- ---John Holmes... Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com/o/registry/3BEXC84AB3A5E/ php|architect: The Magazine for PHP

Professionals

-

www.phparch.com

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