Re: Notes Status, 24899 total

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 at 20:10, Ben Ramsey <ben@benramsey.com> wrote: > > On Aug 15, 2020, at 13:43, Rowan Tommins <rowan.collins@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > On 15/08/2020 19:02, Ben Ramsey wrote: > >> Perhaps the time of user notes in the PHP manual has come and gone, and > >> maybe it would be best to direct folks with questions to the > >> [php] > >> tag on Stack Overflow. Better yet (maybe), each manual page/section > >> could specify a unique tag for that part of the manual, which would > >> make it easier to link users to the answers they’re looking for. > > > > > > Hi Ben, > > > > I would be very cautious about pushing Stack Overflow as a replacement > for all user notes, rather than a supplement to them (or to something > else). It's very easy to lead users into posting questions which are not > welcome on Stack Overflow, leading to a lose-lose situation - the user is > frustrated, Stack Overflow users have more moderation to do, and the blame > falls on php.net. This is common enough that there is an official help > page about it: https://stackoverflow.com/help/product-support > > > > > > I think there are two closely linked problems with user notes right now: > > > > * It's not very clear what their purpose is. There is a long list of > things _not_ to do when you enter one, but no summary of what they _should_ > be for. > Their purpose is to provide supplemental information that ultimately gets folded back into the manual pages proper. We have been consistently failing to do that to any recognisable degree for a very, very long time. > > * There is no active moderation. The rules on the submission page aren't > enforced, suggestions aren't incorporated into the manual, and out-dated > and massively downvoted comments are never deleted. I've actually no idea > who has the ability to moderate them, or how that process is supposed to > work. > Anyone with a php.net account can moderate them. If you're logged into the site, each user note will have moderation tools attached to them. Alternatively, there's the rather clunky interface on master.php.net. > > > > > > Rather than getting rid of notes, I think we should look at how to > improve that process. For instance, as we move towards git for the manual > itself, we could have a system where a PR could list the notes that it > makes redundant, and automatically delete them once approved. Then we could > embrace edit suggestions as comments (rather than directing people to the > bug tracker), and encourage people to raise a PR incorporating those > suggestions. > Ideally, editing the manual would be as easy (or easier!) than it is to add a user note right now. That's a grand goal but not completely unachievable.. > > > I think you’re right. User notes aren’t intended as a place to ask > questions and get answers. They are intended to supplement the examples > in the manual, and many of them are valuable for this reason. Perhaps > when we make it easier to contribute to the manual (through Git, etc.), > more users will be able to provide updates to the manual instead of > adding user notes. > > Cheers, > Ben >