Re: Re: limiting

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Jim Giner <jim.giner@albanyhandball.com> wrote: > On 10/10/2012 10:07 AM, Floyd Resler wrote: >> >> >> >> On Oct 10, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Andy McKenzie <amckenzie4@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> <snip> >>>>> >>>>> Have you read a book on php and perhaps one on CSS to help >>>>> with your "hiding" problem? (BTW - that last was a hint.) >>>> >>>> >>>> I've read plenty of PHP books I own at least 5 and ALL of them I've read >>>> hardly ever explain anything at all. They just throw some code in there >>>> and >>>> say "this is what it does" and gives a picture of the finished product. >>>> Total >>>> waste of my money! Also, how am I going to learn PHP if I've got to mix >>>> it all >>>> up with CSS. It's just going to make things harder and more confusing on >>>> me. I >>>> only threw lightbox in there because I knew I didn't have to do or learn >>>> anything special and to put a smile on my face if it worked. After all, >>>> if it >>>> can't be fun, why do it? >>> >>> </snip> >>> >>> I rarely post anything to this list, because almost everything asked >>> is above my level of understanding. But, speaking as a relative >>> beginner, I have a few comments here. >>> >>> 1) Books. I, too, have read a lot of PHP books. In the end, the ones >>> I've found most useful were by WROX press. Their "Beginning PHP4" by >>> Choi, Kent, Lea, Prasad, and Ullman was one of the best "intro to >>> programming" type books I've found for the way I learn. It's now >>> obsolete, but the core information is still good. I haven't read >>> through the Beginning PHP 5.3 version as thoroughly, but it also seems >>> to be pretty good. You might also want to check with local community >>> colleges to see if someone offers a basic course -- PHP, C, C++, >>> something like that. The language may be different, but the concepts >>> remain the same. >>> >>> 2) "They just throw some code in there and say "this is what it does" >>> and gives a picture of the finished product. Total waste of my money! >>> Also, how am I going to learn PHP if I've got to mix it all up with >>> CSS." >>> >>> This one's harder. These days CSS is part of the web, and you're >>> stuck with it if you want to do anything complex. So here's my >>> advice: Find something simple to experiment with. Don't start with a >>> complex project, start with something that doesn't actually do >>> anything useful. When I start trying to understand a function I >>> haven't used before, I build a new page called something like >>> "foo_test", where foo is the name of the function. These days it >>> might be ip2long_test, or something like that, but I still have some >>> in my test folder with names like "echo_test.php" where I was trying >>> to figure out how that function worked. Start there. Do something >>> simple. Lightbox may be too complex. Maybe build a fortune cookie >>> webpage, where every time you click a button it reloads with a new >>> fortune. Learn to pull fortunes out of a file and out of a database. >>> Once you've got the hang of that, start using CSS to change how it >>> looks. Once THAT's working right, figure out how to use JavaScript >>> (you're going to need it sooner or later!) and AJAX to make it reload >>> the fortune without reloading the whole page. >>> >>> Yeah, it's a boring project. But it's a stepping stone to doing >>> what you really want to do. The alternative is to do what I did: >>> start with a big project, and accept that you're going to rewrite it >>> dramatically later. I started with a book inventory system. First I >>> built a login and authentication system -- that builds a form, and >>> queries the database to see if the userid and password are correct. >>> Then I built a system to list what was in the book table for the >>> database. Around the time I finished that, I realized I needed more >>> granularity in user logins, so I went back and rebuilt the login tool. >>> Then I realized I didn't actually have a way to add stuff to the DB, >>> so I built that tool.... and so on. It ended up taking me something >>> like a year, because I'd never looked at PHP before, and I've now >>> scrapped the entire project and rebuilt it. Why? Because I did just >>> about everything wrong. It just plain wasn't practical to try to fix >>> it. I'd never learned the basics, I just threw myself at a big >>> project to see what would happen. >>> >>> Good luck! >>> >>> -Andy McKenzie >> >> >> Excellent advise! When learning any language, those small steps you >> suggest is how I've always learned the language. A few years ago I ran >> across someone who didn't know a thing about programming but wanted to >> learn. The first project he wanted to tackle was to write his own online >> role playing game. You know, like World of Warcraft! Uh, yeah. I steered >> him away from that! >> >> Take care, >> Floyd >> > All great advice but alas, I fear that my long-winded response that began > all these succeeding advice columns has steered our OP away from this list. > He thinks we're above his level (we are) and that he needs to start > somewhere else, which means he'll probably repeat the mistakes that have > been mentioned here. Oh, well.... you can only help those who ask for it, > and only if they know what to do with it. > I doubt he's gone for good. Looking at the archives[1], he shows up once in a few months with some random question (making same mistakes over again). So if he's gone now, he'll probably show up in a few months. [1] http://marc.info/?a=125667564200003&r=1&w=2