Re: 'include' Considered Harmful

Hmm.. If anything, E_STRICT could leave a warning about variables being used with include/require.. This is the PHP programmers fault clearly.. And the documentation is exactly the right place.. Your suggestion is pretty much as stupid as suggesting to forbid ../ in fopen().. There's nothing wrong with PHP, it's definitly the PHP programmers fault.. It does exactly what I expect it to do, and afaik, what most people expect it to do.. If they write code to include unchecked GET/POST vars, then they don't write code with security in mind at all.. <nelson-lists@crynwr.com> skrev i meddelandet news:20050624055017.25065.qmail@desk.crynwr.com... >I believe that the 'include' operator is intrinsically harmful. As > evidence I introduce three exhibits: Google for "php security flaw". > The very first page you find will explain how a very common use of > 'include' is insecure. As the second bit of evidence, I introduce the > fact both of the naive php programmers working on my server introduced > this security flaw in separate web pages. As the third bit of > evidence, I point out that crackers have created security tools > designed specifically to exploit this flaw. > > This security flaw is common. > > I'm aware that it's possible to write php code that uses the current > include securely manner. I'm aware that it's possible to turn off > this functionality. I'm aware that it's possible to run php in a more > secure manner. > > The evidence presented above says that none of those possibilities are > pursued often enough. It's possible that they could be encouraged > more. I suggest instead that 'include' as designed is intrinsically > harmful. It's an attractive nuisance. > > I suggest that its functionality should be split into two operators. > One of these operators is still called 'include' and behaves the way > that naive PHP programmers believe it behaves: it only includes files > taken from the local file system. It doesn't include any files with > two consecutive dots, and it doesn't include any file beginning with > slash. In other words, it can only be used to include files at or > below the current directory. > > Another operator (which I would call 'includeremotesecurityhole', but > you can call it what you will) behaves the way the current php > operator behaves. If so instructed, it will fetch remote hostile > content and execute it with local privileges. > > FAQs: > > Q: Are you stupid? > A: Not particularly. Stupidity and ignorance are not the same thing. > > Q: If you're that ignorant, you got what you deserve. > A: Actually, there are many things of which I'm ignorant, and I > deserve no harm from any of the other things. > > Q: Why did you allow these programmers to write such code? > A: Because I thought PHP didn't have such huge gaping security flaws. > > Q: PHP doesn't have those flaws; the programmers put it in. > A: If that's the case, then why do so many programmers put it in? > > Q: All other systems have the same problems: .ASP, .NET, etc. > A: And those are quality targets to shoot for? > > Q: Do you hate PHP? > A: No, I love PHP! It allows naive programmers to be amazingly > productive. > > Q: If you hate PHP so much, just turn it off. > A: But PHP allows naive programmers to be amazingly productive. > > Q: Did you read the documentation? It clearly explains the risks. > A: The documentation is the wrong place to fix this problem. > > Q: Did you turn off the remote-fetching, local-executing feature? > A: The configuration is the wrong place to fix this problem. > > Q: 'include' works just fine; why do you want to change it? > A: Because it creates the wrong expectation in programmers new to > PHP. If the operator had the same semantics but the name > 'includeremotesecurityhole' programmers would change their > expectations of the operator. Hazardous equipment will have yellow > markings on it precisely because the equipment doesn't look > dangerous. A saw blade doesn't need yellow markings because it > *is* what it appears to be: extremely sharp and dangerous. > > Q: Do you know how much code this change will break? > A: No. Do you know how much insecure code is out there waiting to be > found and exploited, which this change will make secure? > > -- > --My blog is at blog.russnelson.com | If you want to find > Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | injustice in economic > 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 | affairs, look for the > Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | | hand of a legislator.