RE : [PHP-DEV] Feature-Request - Macros

Exact. IMO too :), the main benefits are : - To keep tracks. Everyday, on this list, we see messages like 'I know we already talked about this (but not who and when)', 'We agreed on this (but cannot remember how and why...)', 'this question was already discussed', ... There's no way for a new comer to know if his idea/suggestion/request brings something new or if there an history on this subject. The only way is to ask on the list. And I must say that most PHP core people are very patient (more than I would be) as they spend a non negligible part of their time reading and replying to this kind of questions. Sometimes, unfortunately, somebody coming with a naive question gets a rough reply, although there was no alternative way for him to get the information. - To setup a quieter place to publish some documents and discuss about them. As opposed to the continuous flow on an irc/newsgroup mechanism, on such a space, you can expose your ideas on several pages, you can provide some diagrams, you can explain in details why you support/dislike somebody else's RFC... Just as you cannot explain everything in 1 minute with a Powerpoint slide, some valuable ideas/suggestions/concepts are not simple to explain. In practice, today, new ideas are filtered through their easiness to be understood in less than 10 seconds, and by the ability of their author to implement it by him/herself (sorry, Sara, I initially wrote 'by HIMself' :). It is not a bad filter but we can make it better. - Making the process more formal would force people to think more before submitting an RFC. Some suggestions we see on the list are not bad but their author do not think enough about the subject before submitting them, with 2 drawbacks : once again, core programmers spend some time writing basic replies, and the suggestion is generally rejected, not because it is bad, but because it is not mature enough. And don't tell me that people don't like to write the doc, that requesting more formal submissions would refrain people from submitting valuable ideas: for most of us, english is not a native language and, if somebody does not submit his idea just because he refuses to expose it clearly on 1 or 2 pages, it is OK, I consider that his idea was probably not so interesting. - Publishing the RFCs on a dedicated space will allow more people to read and discuss about them. Today, when you submit an idea on the list, the audience is quite limited. The list is primarily intended for 'core developers', many people interested in PHP strategy have no interest in day to day core development and they don't have any reason to subscribe to this list, where they will have to manually filter one message every 20 or 30. And, of course, if the subject of your submission is not 'visible' enough, very few people will read your proposal. - A last obvious reason is the ability to setup a real voting process. As Richard writes, it shouldn't be too hard to setup, from a forum basis. I didn't search the Internet but we can probably find more while keeping it light. I am ready to implement, to house, and to administer it. Regards Francois -----Original Message----- From: Richard Quadling [mailto:rquadling@googlemail.com] >For an outsider, an RFC would be a great mechanism. This will let us users see what future >development is planned without having to be part of the inner group. Considering how much is >done in IRC and therefore not visible to a lot of people after the fact, a formalized process >would actually give the core developers some breathing space to actually get there job done. >Not that they are not doing a good job. That is not what I mean. It would allow them to put >down their plans have then discussed and the current situation be visible instantly without the >need to resort to reading archives of a newsgroup. >IMO (humble or otherwise) email/newsgroups/IRC is not the best way to conduct the future >development of the excellent PHP. Maybe the discussion starts there (Hey! I've a great >idea), >but once some thought has gone into it, it needs to be concreted for others to REALLY review. >And an RFC mechanism should be available for that. >It may need nothing more than a rigidly administered forums/BB (phpBB anyone).Only on topic >replies directly related to the RFC. Initially anyway.