Re: Why are the PHP namespaces different compared to C++?

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Lester Caine <lester@lsces.co.uk> wrote: > Stas Malyshev wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >>> I wasn't assuming. I was outright making a factual statement. I never >>> made any implications of the intellectual levels of those implementing >>> the spec. I understand the RFC full well and know why the design is >>> the way it is. I was answering the ops question. Please read what I >>> said before you make your own assumptions. >> >> >> Sorry, statements like "haphazard way", "never well designed", >> "it's a >> mess", "they don't really resemble namespaces", "just some fancy >> magic", >> etc. have nothing to do with facts. Actually, facts are exactly the >> opposite - they were designed, were extensively discussed with >> soliciting feedback from many stakeholders, and were implemented exactly >> as planned. You may not like the way there were implemented, that's your >> opinion (not a fact) and you are entitled to it. But you didn't limit >> yourself to saying "I don't like them". You specifically said that they >> were never well designed and haphazardly implemented. This is factually >> false. > > > Stas ... One thing to bear in mind is that even for those of us for whom > English is our only language it is sometimes difficult to explain what we > mean. Sherif's were perhaps a little 'provocative' but were an accurate > reflection of his view on the results of implementing namespaces. It is a > compromise rather than something that sits naturally in PHP? > > What a lot of newcomers need to understand is that PHP is NOT compiled, so a > heck of a lot of what they are used to just happening is physically > impossible, and namespace is a good case in point. Personally I have yet to > see a good example of the use of namespaces in third party libraries, and > like Sherif avoid them preferring simply so that while the code may be more > verbose, it's clear 5 years later what was intended :) A lot of the current > 'magic' makes it difficult to pick up and work with other peoples code later > on. Right, i have to correct you there. You don't explicitly say it, but you do think that i'm a "newcommer". That's far from the truth. I've been using PHP since 2001 and i consider myself to be quite advanced in PHP usage. Back on the namespace topic. I won't judge on anything, but i know namespaces from c++. I understand that PHP isn't a compiled language and quite frankly that doesn't matter at all. What does matter is that PHP uses the name: "namespace" which C++ obviously had earlier. Naturally someone that knows both languaes (c++ and php) simply assume that a namespace in php probably works the same as those in C++. If that's not the case then it shouldn't even carry the "namespace" name. To me this namespace in php stuff just looks like and alias. So why isn't it named as that: "alias"? I do not want to question the ones that implemented namespaces in php, but i do think that the name itself is at the very least confusing. Also, lets keep this discussion polite people. I'm not here to smash toes. All i would like to know is the reasoning behind the above and if there is any intention of changing the namespaces to be more c++ like. Cheers, Mark