Close the list

If you guys can back-peddle fast enough you may be able to save face. As long as PHP is in the title of your group, as long as it remains on php.net it will be seen as official. If youre acting as a private collection of framework owners and community members you need to make that not only very clear but also act that way. Your current actions have not reflected your intentions, the whole concept of 'php standards' is brilliant but your approach is an affront to the idea and the community. I've been reading the Google group and while a great deal of it reads as exceptional arrogance in the context of 'php standards' it's pretty mundane and 'fair play' on your part if you are simply private a coalition of frameworks (and ACTING as a private coalition). The right way to have done this would be involve the employs/prominent members from each of your projects in a private group where you could discuss issues and perhaps use the php.net mailing lists as feedback media. Getting a site up with a representative (read: far less presumptuous) name and detailed information is imperative if you want to capitalise on whatever Karma remains to spur adoption. As an aside to Rasmus et al. I would like to see another process spring up which would be a true 'php standards' working group, involving the entire community.... But this isn't it. Michael