RE: [PHP-DEV] The PHP Platform

Have you buried your head into the source code to see how it works? If not, I suggest looking at what they have done before making the statement over performance. There is nothing I have seen that suggests they are implementing slowness (on purpose, by mistake, or for lack of time). These guys _know_ what the hell there're doing. The fact that Zend goes one step further to make PHP really smoke by offering their products, tells me PHP is a solid platform they must really trust. Further still, that they really trust open source. Everyone has had problems with a credit card at times, that does not reflect on the base product, or the guys that have developed, built, maintained, and enhanced it. Billy Rose wrose@loislaw.com > -----Original Message----- > From: medvitz [mailto:medvitz@medvitz.net] > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 10:57 AM > To: php-dev@lists.php.net > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] The PHP Platform > > > > I don't really have an issue with the Zend people making > money from their > products. > > The concern I have is that they sell perfoamance enhancing products. > Because they are selling these, I worry that performance in > the base Zend > engine will not be / is not a primary concern. I think that > performance > should be a top priority for the 'base' engine. People > outside of Zend are > contributing a good amount of time to creating extensions, > writing PEAR > modules, and promoting PHP, and , in my opinion , these > efforts are being > used by Zend who are holding back on performance. > > Yes... the optimizer is free. But it doesn't always have to be. > > I like PHP, I use PHP, I use PHP for clients work, so yes.... > I make money > off of PHP. I expect that the Zend psople can as well, > without holding > back on the community that helped them get where they are today. > > > I've got some biases here. I was a subscriber, for a time to the > developer's pachage that they had towards the beginning. For > $600 a year I > got the Encoder, the debug server and 2 client licenses. > They had a pay by > month option and I selected this, as my company wasn't going > to reimburse > me for this expense. When my bank got bought and I had to > get use a new > card to keep up on the payments no one could do it. I > emailed the people > who handled the credit card transactiosn, and I emailed Zend. > I got no > responsse what-so-ever, but a lot of emails telling me they > couldn't bill > my card (all of which I replied to asking how to change my > card info). I'm > glad you have had good expeirience with them, 'cause I > haven't. And the > package that made the mose sense to me, they no longer offer. > > > Medvitz > > > Dave Mertens wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 07:32:47PM -0400, medvitz wrote: > >> The issue I have with PHP is that the people in charge > have reasons for > >> not > >> implementing performance enhancements in the base code. > They charge a > >> fair > >> amount for add-ons that increases performance drastically. I could > >> actually argue that extensibility and performance on the > back end aren't > >> what they should be for this reason. > >> > >> Not that I want to make enemies here, but I think this is > a realistic > >> criticism. Not to mention that the Qt license that is > used prevents > >> anyone from making extensions and selling them w/o an > additional license > >> from the > >> Zend people. So they are able to make money off of the > hard work of all > >> of the module contributors, which I think really blows. > > > > So if i understand what your saying you don't like that > fact the Zend had > > write an (very) good engine for PHP4 and now is making some > money with > > it?? > > > > Don't forget Zend is a commercial company that is doing a > lot for the open > > source community. Without them you didn't had PHP4! > > > > Without all the Zend optimalisations (but with the free > Zend Optimzer > > (You've installed it, right?!)) PHP4 has a good > performance. With the > > money they make with their products like Zend Encoder, Zend > Cache, etc > > they can continue developing on the Zend Engine. > > > > They don't force you to but their products. They only say > that they can > > really speed up your code. > > Companies where i work (a official gold microsoft partner > ;-( ) has also > > bought the Zend products. > > > > My boss thinks the Zend products are very cheap in comparisment with > > Microsoft products. > > > > Microsoft is doing the same thing. They provide you with a > 'free' IIS > > webserver, but they have also products that enhance IIS > like Commerce > > Server, Content Server, etc. > > > > The fact that a commercial company like Zend is working on > PHP is for a > > large number of companies very important. Most open-source > projects don't > > have a proper helpdesk. Zend is providing a very good helpdesk. > > > > But all this have two sides. While we (PHP developers) > build upon PHP4, > > and make money with the applications we write with it. And > Zend is making > > money with other Zend products and they make sure PHP is > good enough for > > companies. > > > > So don't trap Zend into the ground. Because of them you can > program OOP in > > PHP! > > > > That all from me.. > > > > Dave Mertens > > > -- > PHP Development Mailing List <http://www.php.net/> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >