Re: PHP Manual Attribution under CC BY 3.0

Dear Daniel Brown, perhaps there is a misunderstanding. As you continue pointing to the license text written by Creative Commons or repeating it in your own words would have answered my question, I have to clearly write to you that it did not. But this is perhaps my mistake because I could not make it clear to you so far what I'm looking for. For a better understanding, please see as well "How do I properly attribute a Creative Commons licensed work?" on http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Marking/Users. The part is about "If the copyright holder has not specified any particular way to attribute them" where I'm just asking here in the mailinglist, *if* the copyright holder of the PHP Manual has or has not specified any particular way to attribute them. This is also why it didn't help for me so far that you pointed to the license text for the important point of the particular way to attribute the copyright holder (the manner of attribution): The license text itself tells me I should attribute in the manner specified by the authors/licensors of the PHP Manual. This is also what you have confirmed to me so far and we both are d'accord on this point. But that license text itself does not specify the manner. And this is the point where we seem to differ. For me, such a manner of attribution can only be specified by the author/licensor of the concrete work, the authors/licensor of the PHP Manual, not the authors of the Creative Commons license text. I do however accept that if next to the license text itself no further specification on how to attribute is done, that there is none of such. However from our current email communication this is not entirely clear to me whether that is the case or not. As I need to find out first whether or not the copyright holder did specify a particular way to attribute them, I need a concrete answer to that question where the manner is specified - not a general one. The communication problem around that point we could not resolve in the last email fully, but there was some progress by differentiating my question into three simpler ones. Thanks to your reply, for me that did turn out some results: I now can see that the authors wants to be named as "the PHP Documentation Group" for attribution (or at least that this would be acceptable for the copyright holders). Is that correct? I only ask twice so that I get some verification, I hope it's not looking abrasive again. An exemplary use then could be imagined by me as: > Copyright 1997, 2003 Hans Krentel. Parts of this work are "PHP Manual" © 1997-2013 > the PHP Documentation Group, used under a CC-BY-3.0 license. As this kind of attribution of the PHP Manual shows, the name "the PHP Documentation Group" is used. Would such an example be okay for the copyright holders of the PHP Manual for attribution? Or is it just that you can not answer that concrete because on this level of detail the particular way to attribute remains unspecified? This is actually all I'm trying to learn about and I hope writing about it can clarify this again a little, so it becomes more clear to you what I'm actually looking for. It's perhaps just that I'm missing to find the place where the concrete manner of attribution is specified in the PHP Manual by the authors/licensors already. As you also replied earlier that it is written everywhere in the PHP manual that it's the PHP Documentation Group who is the copyright holder - and I didn't see that earlier as well. So maybe it is just this sentence here which specifies the manner of attribution? : > Copyright © 1997 - 2013 by the PHP Documentation Group. (which is from http://php.net/manual/en/copyright.php) Could it be that easy?  Thanks for your feedback, -- hakre   http://hakre.wordpress.com/