Re: Semi-ADVERT, not really spam, sorry for it

Sorry for the top-post, and please don't be offended by the following... Much as you would probably like to think it's a good business model, bidding low for projects and then expecting other developers to help you for even less is not sustainable. I appreciate your position but you need to understand that freelance PHP developers charge what they do because that's what the market will pay. I've recently taken on 2 PHP contractors and even though there's only 20 GBP difference in their daily rates one is miles better than the other, to the point where I'm having to check everything the slightly cheaper one is doing and I've found a number of killer bugs that would have caused major issues had they gone live. The point I'm making is that you get what you pay for and you're kinda illustrating why. Unfortunately the general market out there doesn't value quality over "it works" so the gap between the excellent and the downright awful is pretty small. The bottom line is that you shouldn't be taking on work that either you can't do or you can't afford to sub-contract. Appealing to the community for cheap help is just not cricket! "You wouldn't go broke on not getting such amounts" - every penny counts when you're a freelancer, as does every minute. Some will be able to afford to lose a few dollars here and there due to non-payment, but others (in fact the ones likely to take up your offer if you can find any) probably can't. I hope you take this the way it's intended - as some friendly advice - and not as an attack of any kind. I applaud anyone who's embarking on a freelance career since it's a pretty risky route to take, but you need to approach it in a sustainable way if it's going to be a success. If you can make a success of freelancing you can do very well out of it so I wish you the best of luck. -Stut -- http://stut.net/ On 19 Aug 2008, at 15:17, V S Rawat wrote: > On 8/19/2008 4:53 PM India Time, _metastable_ wrote: > >> There are many channels out there that would be beneficial to your >> goals, e.g. wendo, ogone and the likes. >> Please take your commercial goals there. > > Oh, like ODesk? > > I wouldn't be able to pay that kind of King's ransoms the developers > over there are charging. > > I thought that if I look in help ngs where veterans are already > providing voluntary help, they might not mind if I manage to pay a > humble amount for their tips for correcting or even developing a > crucial cryptic part of my code. > > Actually, I had seen, especially in Java groups, threads like: > > http://groups.google.co.in/group/comp.lang.java.help/browse_thread/thread/7b610ded8e22098f/8d083f8ff374f4b0?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=paypal#8d083f8ff374f4b0 > Email Java tutor needed! $20 each homework! > > http://groups.google.co.in/group/comp.lang.java.gui/browse_thread/thread/afb2cca2c29d5b03/d0fe80666226af6f?hl=en&lnk=st&q=JAVA+PAYPAL#d0fe80666226af6f > get $10 through paypal upon finishing this small java prgram..1st > come 1st win > > http://groups.google.co.in/group/comp.lang.java.help/browse_thread/thread/ed2007c157e55cde/7b34426e63f07520?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=paypal#7b34426e63f07520 > Will Pay $50 for help on Java swing project > > http://groups.google.co.in/group/comp.lang.java.help/browse_thread/thread/71baa9425c6f56ce/c597a93e0a526c0e?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=paypal#c597a93e0a526c0e > Please help me > > In the last thread above, members helped a person, and then, this is > a part: > > Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help > From: Andrew Thompson <SeeMySi...@www.invalid> > Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:25:25 GMT > Subject: Re: Please help me > > On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:25:33 +0100, april wrote: > > I have just had a look at the sites listed but could not find > anywhere > > to dontate some cash. Do you have a paypal account and prehaps > then I > > could do it that way > > Sure do, > <http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ > > the 'Make a Donation' button is hidden > over on the left, below the menu... > > (Tah!) > > -- > Andrew Thompson > http://www.PhySci.org/ Open-source software suite > http://www.PhySci.org/codes/ Web & IT Help > http://www.1point1C.org/ Science & Technology > > -- > > Oh yeah now I see it. Sorry its not going to be mega amounts of > money as > > I really can not afford it right now so please understand. Sorry I > can > > not afford more. > > Make no apologies April, and thank you. > > With the two donations I have received recently > (1 from a student in Ireland) I now have almost > half what the *huge* ads on my site have earned > over 4 months! > > All the best with your new Java > enabled browser, April. Take care. :-) > --end > > > So, I thought that I might also utilize similar help against humble > payments. > > No, it is not my school homework. I don't study - I mean, not any > more. :-) > > I am a surviving dinosaur of DOS/GWBasic/ Pascal/ Fortran/ Cobol/ > dBASEIII/ foxpro and unix days when windows and Linux were not born. > I am (was) a master of procedural languages but then my ratbrain > couldn't grasp 4GLs if you know that early 90s term. > > I then learned HTML and bits of Perl, Java and Javascript, but I get > scared by their vastness and can do only elementary half page coding > in them. > > I work by freelancing - bidding and getting jobs on net sites, > getting paid for them. My own areas are Translation, Transcription, > MS Office, Excel, HTML. But, nowadays nothing is working in > isolation. e.g., go to that site, extract 200 pages of data, only > this-this-this fields, save that in csv file and open that in excel, > do such and such processing on this and this field of the data and > arrange the results in such format, convert that to pdf and send the > pdf to me. whoosh! > > Stumbling blocks: > - foxpro 2.6 has been rendered obsolete even by its makers. I had > never even looked into its Visual counterpart. > > - perl is manageable, but PerlScript doesn't work in Firefox. > > - PerlScript is working in ie, but greasemonkey ready scripts and > ff's wealth of extensions don't work in ie. > > - I have been told that JavaScript is not able to save things on hdd. > > so on. Wherever I start, something comes up that stumps me and I > loose another project. > > I was surprised to see PHP becoming increasing popular for web > related work. Clients are mentioning php by name. I thought that I > could manage it with my Perl/ CGI bits of knowledge. I installed win > WAMP Server 2.0 and everything else is working fine but php refused > to work on my box. Even if it starts working, i wouldn't be able to > become a master of it overnight. I inquired about command line > processor or javascript like shell of php, but seems there are none. > > Why not ask for unpaid help here? > > Well, the usual culture in techy ng-s/ ml-s is NO-SPOONFEEDING. If I > ask questions here, members would surely help me but would ask me to > read such and such webpage or manual and tryout this and that > command. When the client is sitting on my head through the other end > of chat window threatening to cancel the project and even forfeit > expert guarantee amount committed by me, I can't say, wait, I am > learning. > > I thought I could find some persons to help me against humble > payments. I could get some tips from them on cryptic parts of of > JavaScript, Perl, PHP, etc. that I can't yet manage. Then, I would > be able to do projects needing interfacing with these also. The > missing part of the puzzle. > > I just needed one person - or 2 or 3 just because of timeline > differences, who could give me tips/ algorithms/ commands to develop > my code, and if I still can't get it working - to check my code and > tell the problem line point blank or may be correct it. Payment > would be small and made then and there - irrespective of whether or > I I get paid by my client in due course or not. In all probability, > due to repeated interactions with same persons, a periodic cycle > will get formed when I pay a variable or fixed retainership fee > weekly, etc. > > And how much can I cheat you if I promise to pay for help and don't > pay you afterwards? $5? $10? $20? You wouldn't go broke on not > getting such amounts and i would loose my credibility and none of > you would help me on my next question and I stop getting further > project. > > There are bigger projects also that I come to know of but I don't > touch them as I know I wouldn't be able to clinch them even with > help here. If the persons who would have helped me felt that they > can do such development, I could forward such projects to them as > such projects are of no use for me. Thus, my humble payments would > get partly supplemented by the earnings they would do through such > developments. > -- > > > If the suggestion of help against payment is really so offending to > you guys, my sincere apologies. > >> Stijn > > -- > V > > -- > PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >