Re: History, "Dead" and community

Not for Long: We're gonna bring this back around, even if it kills us (I hope; this community needs some revitalization badly). Bruno is testing some stuff, and Alexandre is working on an actual implementation. I hope to help both at two points in time, particularly mid- to late-July. Thank you for your support, and I appreciate those of you that stayed theough the darker times to help usher me in. --MGage-- > On Jun 22, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Elizabeth M Smith <auroraeosrose@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi folks. > > The mailing list got REALLY busy all of the sudden. > > I've been having issues with php mailing lists (they REALLY don't like > my email) and just realized all the stuff going on here. > > First of all it's great to have people interested in the project. For > a LONG time it's been 1 or 2 people... with a few popping up here or > there to get interested and then moving on quickly (usually when they > realize how much work needs to be done) > > And although there's been someone keeping track of the actual code > itself - the website was completely abandoned (thanks for taking that > monstrosity on) and the documentation has been similarly abandoned > (it's in old docbook and uses xsl to generate) - the people who once > knew how that worked are gone > > There have actually been a couple of attempts to start up a php-gtk3 > project before. But it's a BIG undertaking and only having 1 or 2 > people work on it makes it difficult to get off the ground. > > There's also the fact that a fully introspected version of the > extension (like pythons gobject) have some pretty deep underlying > issues (mostly related to the typelibs and the fact that they are > strongly linked in many aspects to the python gobject wrapping > implementation) - which is why although there's a prototype of an > introspected solution it doesn't really work well. > > If you're interested in some of the code you can find it > https://github.com/gtkforphp/ - some of it was actually working > once > upon a time. > > I think it's a good idea to do a "new" gtk for php but I think there > are some things to keep in mind. > > 1. We do have an irc channel on freenode #php-gtk - this is a great > way to connect with the people who still work on the project and know > the code - not only the php-gtk code and php internals code, but the > gnome libraries as well. Especially when talking technical details > it's nice to do it in realtime. > 2. The project has never been completely dead - it just basically only > had one dev (who is poor at recruiting) for a long time - which is > never a good thing > 3. The php-gtk source code is on php.net and mirrored on github - > there have been some prs but not a lot - and none from the people now > currently conversing on the list - and it's also limited to the > problem of basically 1 developer to look at and pull them > 4. Discussions on the future should be all on list - not in private emails :) > > Some thoughts on a complete rewrite > > 1. a monolithic extension is not very useful - php-gtk should become > several small extensions > > right now php-gtk has wrappings for gtk, gdk, some glib, atk, some > cairo integration (although most of cairo was pulled into it's own > extension) and many others > > parts of glib, cairo, and other gnome libraries such as clutter make > sense to use not only in a gui environment, but even in a server > environment > > This would even allow for things like a gtk2 and gtk3 extension > > the extension(s) should probably mirror the underlying libraries > > glib, gobject, gio, cairo(exists, is getting a php7 fix), pango (also > exists), atk, gtk2, gtk3, gdk, clutter, gstreamer, etc. > > 2. If you're rewriting from scratch, a PHP7 only version is probably a good idea > > The internal apis of php have changed an incredible amount from 5 -> 7 > and it would be both very ugly and very hard to support both PHP7 and > PHP 5.6(and higher) in the same code base > > 3. PHP-gtk has very very few tests... and needs them > > This is probably as important as the rewrite - although you really > don't need to test the functionality of the gtk library itself, it IS > important to make sure the bindings are tight. > > As far as getting php-gtk commit karma, that's really not that hard > Submit some PR's - usually 2 or 3 good ones with tests > Discuss things on list and/or in IRC > As long as stuff doesn't break the build and works it gets pulled - > but remember right now there's 1 dev... so expect lag time (maybe a > week) until there are 2 or 3 or more devs capable of code reviewing, > building, and testing - because you need those checks > > If you need help getting an environment for compiling set up on > windows or linux - I'm happy to help. Pop into irc. If you're really > ambitious someone could update the documentation :) > > Also php-gtk could really use someone to roll releases. We actually > should have had about 3-4 - there's been new functionality added and > build fixes done and features integrated.. just no release. > > For example - there is complete gtkbuilder integration in the git > version of php-gtk (that's the format glade3 outputs btw) - but none > of that is documented beyond some demo files. > > Thanks, > Elizabeth M Smith > > -- > PHP-GTK Development Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >