Re: New website for the PHP project

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 2:20 AM, Andrey Andreev <narf@devilix.net> wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM azjezz azjezz@protonmail.com wrote: > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On Monday, February 4, 2019 2:32 PM, Andrey Andreev narf@devilix.net wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > I could nitpick on most of the proposed plan, but I really only wanted > > > to reply to this: > > > > > > > > - A new home page, not a "news" page, but a page simply showing > > > > > the PHP Logo, a code example maybe and > > > > > the download link [3]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > [3] ��� > > > > > ���}Y":ghttps://camo.githubusercontent.com/762e5d9fcaaa4ecf645343350a91929f99f452e9/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f584477675261662e706e67 > > > > > > I just hate those useless landing pages. > > > Yes, it looks neat and clean, but after the initial "OMG so pretty" > > > phase it just becomes annoying - noone cares about the code example > > > and I for one never know what "Get Started" means. PHP isn't some > > > consumer desktop software; nobody would just stumble upon php.net and > > > "get started" with it, whatever that means ... > > > I'm all for a modern look and all, but let's please keep the news on > > > the index page. Personally, I only go to php.net to look for the news, > > > changelogs and to search the docs. This image suggests that I'd need > > > to do an extra click for each of those things and I'm sure I wouldn't > > > be the only one unhappy about that. > > > Cheers, > > > Andrey. > > > > The landing page is meant for the new comers to PHP, when people search for php, the home > > page is the first to appear. it make sense to show a sample and a straightforward button to get > > started with using PHP ( introduction, installation and tutorial ) > > There's a missing link here - who searches for "php" without prior > knowledge of what it is? Programming languages aren't buzzwords that > come up in casual conversations between people who don't already use > them. > > And how does it make sense to show a code sample? What for? The only > time I've seen isolated, meaningless code samples serve a purpose is > to look cool in movies. > > Now that you mentioned a tutorial, that's one thing I agree is useful > and missing. As a self-learner myself, 15 years ago I would've > appreciated a vetted selection of tutorials on the official website. > But why not just put a "Tutorials" link alongside "Documentation"? > > > You can see the mock up repository for what the "Getting Started" page would > > look like. > > No such thing had been linked until your last reply (which was sent > after I started writing this), but that's my point exactly - you have > to look at it first in order to know what's hiding behind it and > that's counter-productive to me; I reiterate the suggestion to have a > "Tutorials" link instead. > > > if you usually visit the website for documentation, you would just type > > php.net/documentation in the url bar instead of php.net or php.net/blog for changelogs and articles. > > See, this is where you actually make the site harder to use. > > Today, I only type "ph" into my address bar and thanks to Firefox > hitting enter gets me to php.net, which in turn gives me everything > that I need: > > - The news are the main content and you want to put that on a separate > page, calling it "Blog". > Yes, most modern websites have a "Blog" instead of a "News" section, > but that's because at some point it became "cool" for everyone to > blog. There's no use to just naming it that when there's zero blogging > going on and we have almost exclusively only release announcements. > > - The ChangeLog I get convenienty linked to from each news article > about a release (again that's all the news). So that's another thing > you're taking away from the index page, even if by accident. > > - The search bar allows me to check the manual for any function > signature, built-in class reference, etc. > Note that I said "search the manual" in my first reply, not browse > it. I've never needed to visit php.net/documentation, yet that's what > you suggest I should do. > > These things are regressions for me, not improvements. > > > In essence, I share Rowan's sentiment in that I actually quite like > the current website, but I like it because it is excellent for > everyday lookups. As long as you can keep it that way, I fully support > your effort. > I don't really care about the design, but there's plenty of other > stuff that could use some love. > > Cheers, > Andrey. > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM azjezz azjezz@protonmail.com wrote: > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On Monday, February 4, 2019 2:32 PM, Andrey Andreev narf@devilix.net wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > I could nitpick on most of the proposed plan, but I really only wanted > > > to reply to this: > > > > > > > > - A new home page, not a "news" page, but a page simply showing > > > > > the PHP Logo, a code example maybe and > > > > > the download link [3]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > [3] > > > > > https://camo.githubusercontent.com/762e5d9fcaaa4ecf645343350a91929f99f452e9/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f584477675261662e706e67 > > > > > > I just hate those useless landing pages. > > > Yes, it looks neat and clean, but after the initial "OMG so pretty" > > > phase it just becomes annoying - noone cares about the code example > > > and I for one never know what "Get Started" means. PHP isn't some > > > consumer desktop software; nobody would just stumble upon php.net and > > > "get started" with it, whatever that means ... > > > I'm all for a modern look and all, but let's please keep the news on > > > the index page. Personally, I only go to php.net to look for the news, > > > changelogs and to search the docs. This image suggests that I'd need > > > to do an extra click for each of those things and I'm sure I wouldn't > > > be the only one unhappy about that. > > > Cheers, > > > Andrey. > > > > The landing page is meant for the new comers to PHP, when people search for php, the home > > page is the first to appear. it make sense to show a sample and a straightforward button to get > > started with using PHP ( introduction, installation and tutorial ) > > You can see the mock up repository for what the "Getting Started" page would > > look like. > > if you usually visit the website for documentation, you would just type > > php.net/documentation in the URL bar instead of php.net or php.net/blog for changelogs and articles. Hello Andrey, thanks for your reply. it's really appreciated. i have asked few people and after sharing opinions, i decided its better to update the landing page to contain almost the same resources as the current website but in a different design. 1. now you can see latest releases in the home page with a link for the download and changlog. 2. events are now in the side bar as they are now in the php.net website, but they also include an image ( usually the logo ) 3. the search bar is now in the top navigation menu 4. "Getting Started" link is now in the top navigation menu ( the getting started page contains introduction to php, how-to install php in different platforms and a simple tutorial - but i might extend the original tutorial that is now found on php.net - https://secure.php.net/manual/en/tutorial.php - as it seems more focused on how to get a web site running with php rather how to use php ) 5. reference to the "blog"/"news" has been removed as the landing page is now where release notes are. mock ups : https://github.com/azjezz/web-php-mock-ups screenshot : https://github.com/azjezz/web-php-mock-ups/blob/master/screenshots/getting-started.png