Re: Re: Re: PHP Annotations RFC + Patch

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:12:43 +0200, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote: > At 09:37 15/09/2010, Christian Kaps wrote: >>On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 23:09:02 -0700, Stas Malyshev >><smalyshev@sugarcrm.com> wrote: >> >> > Whatever syntax it is, it is definitely new. >> >>Yes, but this should not be an argument against it. So every new >>feature can have new syntax or should PHP freeze on the current state!? >>I can't honestly understand why developer shouldn't understand the new >>syntax. These developers which are familiar with annotations, I think >>have no problem. This users which are new to annotations must learn the >>new syntax like any other new syntax too. Where is the problem? > > Christian, > > Introducing large amounts of new syntax is by itself a very strong > negative when weighing the pros and cons of a new proposed feature. > Does it mean that 'every new feature that has new syntax' should not > be considered? No - but it certainly means that features introducing > new syntax, especially large amounts of it, should have extremely > compelling advantages and cater to a very large audience. If there's > already another way of reaching the same goal, even if it's not a > perfect-fit but a good-enough fit, that is also a strong argument > against the introduction of a new syntax. > > And I honestly don't think that syntax is the only issue here. It's > the introduction of yet another new entity, another concept into the > language. "How difficult can it be to understand?" - probably not > very, but every new concept introduced to the language makes it a bit > more difficult to understand, a bit less intuitive, a bit more > complex. There won't be a flashing red light warning us when we're > about to cross the line to making PHP 'too complicated'. > > In terms of language-level features, I don't think it's bad at all if > PHP went into a mode that most of the other mature languages went into > - where syntax changes or introduction of new language level features > are pretty rare. Out of all of the mature languages out there, I > think PHP has by far the most new syntax-introducing features per > version, and personally I don't think that's a good thing. Most of > the new features should come from new extensions, new libraries and > frameworks - not syntax changes. > > Zeev Zeev and Stas, I can understand your mind and I can only repeat again that in my opinion annotations are a great feature which can help to produce better software in a simpler way. And I think I am not alone. My last question is, if it makes sense to argue more or is the decision already been made against annotations. Because personally, I have no arguments anymore for implementing annotations in PHP. Greetings, Christian