Re: Move internals discussion to a better medium

On Tue, 4 Aug 2015, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Scott Arciszewski <scott@paragonie.com> > wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Terry Cullen <terry@terah.com.au> wrote: > > > > > >> On Tuesday, 4 August 2015, Johannes Schlüter <johannes@schlueters.de> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 17:15 -0500, Stephen Coakley wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > You have to admit, NNTP news is an aging technology, with > > >> > > fewer and fewer readers available as time goes on. Nowadays > > >> > > (for graphical clients), there's Pan, and Thunderbird, > > >> > > and...? I use Thunderbird at the moment, because I didn't > > >> > > want to fill up my email, and there aren't too many readers. > > >> > > Heck, Thunderbird is technically a "discontinued" product. > > >> > > > >> > ... and with a forum there is only a single client. The forum > > >> > itself. ;-) Yes, and a forum is "oh let me see whether there is a new post" compared to: here is a new post. A mailinglist also allows for filters, searches, etc, a forum never does. And most of their interfaces for editting text are even worse than Gmail. > > >> Redmine would be a good option. > > >> http://www.redmine.org/ > > >> > > >> The feature list has most everything covered in this thread. > > >> > > >> http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Features > > > > > > maybe it just me, but it seems to me, that every time this idea is > > > brought up, not many people from the actual participants of the > > > list speak up, but bunch of people who never before sent a mail to > > > the list will chip in. Right, because most of us, are likely just happy with what there currently exists. > > > I'm not saying that there is nothing to improve, but I think that > > > it would be important to actually incorporate some feedback from > > > the people actually generating the content on the list. personally > > > I would prefer moving to something like google groups and doing in > > > a way that we can preserve archives ( > > > > > > https://github.com/wojdyr/fityk/wiki/MigrationToGoogleGroups) that > > > would allow us to actually kill our ancient list/ezmlm > > > infrastructure along with news.php.net which would be a huge win. GoogleGroups? You must be kidding. It's a pile of poo. Not only is it ridiculously bad in following any sort of RFC (quoting breakage, in-reply-to errors, and mangling), it also promotes bad multiple-people-discussions, such as top-posting. Then, it routes mail wrong sometimes, and good luck managing a list with it. > > > it would also make it much more easier to search/link to our > > > mailing lists archives: news.php.net has no way of searching, > > > news://news.php.net is pretty slow, we have a couple > > > of mail > > > archives like > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/internals@lists.php.net/ > > > which are > > > indexing some of our mailing lists, but they don't have the > > > archives from the beginings, but I remember seeing a mail from > > > them to ask for our archives in an mbox and they then would be > > > able to add the missing indexes. That was Gmane, which has all 100055+ emails archived. It's also an NNTP server that allows everybody to read and write to the list: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.devel > > > moving to google groups would > > > also make it much easier to manage the groups (there are less > > > people familiar with ezmlm administration than people with google > > > groups experience) and make it easier to reply to old mails. ezmlm isn't that hard to manage, it's just that we don't have enough people to do it - are you volunteering? > > > I think that would suit our usage pattern better than a forum and > > > personally I don't really want to start hosting/maintaining one > > > (we should have to integrate our own auth and probably acl into > > > that, security audit, keep it up-to-date, etc.). Well, I think Google Groups is shit :) cheers, Derick