Re: [PHP4BETA] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP4BETA] PHP 4.0.0 Release packaged

From my point of view, this whole debate boils down to something like this: A: PHP is good, really good, but it could use a few touchups here and there. I think it would serve PHP better if there was some period of time in the release cycle devoted to fixing bugs. B: Why don't you just shut up and fuck off??? If you know C, fix them yourself, we're not responsible. If you don't know C, shut up and fuck off. M: PHP is certainly a great product (hey, I wouldn't be using it if it weren't), but what good is in the endless function list, when a good portion of those functions is not documented? N: Why don't you just shut up and fuck off??? If you know C, read the source code, we're not interested. If you don't know C, shut up and fuck off. People who don't speak C don't deserve using PHP. (Also mentioned were the win32 'dissidents'.) X: I'm on win32, and (whatever). Y: Why don't you just shut up and fuck off? If you use the win32 platform, you're sub-human. Don't bother us. I will use a 'real-world example here. I remember this post, because the answer *shocked* me. I would expect such an answer from a 16 years old boy. Not from a mature man. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php4beta&m=95754702605916&w=2 ) >List: php4beta >Subject: Re: [PHP4BETA] building php4 snap on win32 >From: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@php.net> >Date: 2000-05-05 17:15:50 >[Download message RAW] > > > our admin today built the latest php4 snap for Linux and said that there > > were several bugs which hindered compiling. > > He patched them and built PHP4 for Linux. > >I hope he submitted appropriate bug reports. > > > I want to use the latest PHP4 version too, but I´m develeoping in Win32 > > and never built something on Win32. > > Can I use the latest snaps for this (I need gd 1.8.1 support)? > > Can someone provide me an URL where to retrieve a compiler for building > > PHP4 (I do not want to install the MSDN)... > >You are pretty much stuck with MSVC. You are using a commercial OS, so >you are stuck with commercial tools as well. Sorry. There are plenty of >free operating systems and tools available to you. > >-Rasmus So, the question is: do you dev guys really want to see PHP used a lot in the world by the real people, who often come to PHP from plain HTML, and to whom PHP is the first programming language they learn, or you just enjoy creating a huge black hole sun? PHP has lots of functions. Why do you add them, when it seems like you don't want people to know about them? You are not paid for the work and time you devote to the development of PHP. You must be doing it for another reason then. But what is it? If the reason is that you want to be part of a Great Thing, then we probably don't meet on the meaning of the word. Isn't a Great Thing something that lots of people use, right because it's Great. Is it really fun creating a program few people will appreciate (or fewer than could, and would) just because their (lack of) knowledge will hide the Greatness of your work from them? You say you don't want to do things like the other (commercial) guys do. What you don't realize is, you already do it their way. If you don't believe, try, for example, ask for a bug fix, or just a plain explanation of a bug, for HomeSite. Where I live (Czech republic), a computer costs three monthly salaries. I just can't afford it. So I play with PHP on my office computer, which happens to run NT. I believe there are a lot more users can't (immediatelly) move to *BSD or Linux. Answering win32 users like this doesn't often make them convert, rather contrary. I think I'm quite an exception, because I bite the bullet. Of course, it's because I believe PHP is good (and I hope I will make my living thanks to PHP when I'm good enough), as well as because PHP is free, and as I don't have the money to buy a computer right now, I don't have the money to buy CF or NT server to run IIS. Not that I'd like to. There's more to this, but I'll just shut up and fuck off for now. At 04:05 21.5.2000 +0200, Sander Pilon wrote the following: -------------------------------------------------------------- >PS - Em.. since when did PHP get shockwave support? There's no mention of it >in the manual or the notes :) ------end of quote------ At 09:38 21.5.2000 +0200, eschmid+sic@s.netic.de wrote the following: -------------------------------------------------------------- >Together with the above expierenced users use the source code. In >the case of Shockwave Flash you can use the function prototype together >with the Flash API and start coding. And oh well, the documentation people >have to do some other work thei are paid for. ------end of quote------ At 00:02 22.5.2000 -0200, Manuel Lemos wrote the following: -------------------------------------------------------------- >Hello Egon, > > >On 21-May-00 18:35:25, you wrote: > > >All Flash functions have an function prototype, which will tell such > >newbies a lot. Most things can be found in the source code. Just read it. ------end of quote------ At 00:48 22.5.2000 -0700, Ron Chmara wrote the following: -------------------------------------------------------------- >You also have to learn more about why PHP is, quite >frankly, one of the best options available. ------end of quote------ ____________________________________________________________ Cynic: A member of a group of ancient Greek philosophers who taught that virtue constitutes happiness and that self control is the essential part of virtue. cynic@mail.cz ICQ: 2808 2505