Re: wacky object idea

At 13:23 28/08/00 -0400, Chuck Hagenbuch wrote:

Quoting Andrei Zmievski <andrei@ispi.net>: This is one of the times when I completely agree with Andi. We have __string_value method support and I suppose it's a nice enough feature for debugging, but I don't see it being used for much more than that. Adding other kinds of automatic object conversions is just going to lead to more mess. Andi is right when he says that using interfaces would be a better approach. Ok... I guess the simple answer is I disagree with you. Sure, interfaces would be good. How do you suggest we implement them in PHP? __string_value is great for writing objects that need to be displayed - just echo the object, and it does the right thing. Readability is certainly a concern, but that's the kind of thing an object should know how to do. So, in terms of readability, if I can make sure that an object evaluates to false, I can do this: if ($obj->methodThatMightFail()) {} or $res = $obj->methodThatMightFail(); if ($res) {} Instead of: $res = $obj->methodThatMightFail(); if (is_object($res) && (getclass($res) == 'PEAR_Exception')) { // failed } Having real exceptions would solve this also. Or having some way to enforce strong typing without checking the type returned from every single method call. I'm curious what you think of these assorted comments. Do you think I should be using a different language? Should I be writing the isobject() && getclass() checks on every function call? How do you suggest we solve these problems?

Do I think you should be using a different language? Well it depends what you are looking for. If you are looking for operator overloading I think you should use C++. If you are looking for a fully object oriented strongly typed programming language you should use Java. If you are looking for a scripting language you should use PHP. Yes, there are things that can be improved. Some things can't unless we turn PHP into what it wasn't meant to be (strongly typed and so on). Do I think you should have to write isobject() && getclass()? No it sucks. All I said is lets not be hasty and decide on something we will regret. Operator overloading (or something very similar we'd probably regret). The best thing is to think about the current possibilites (what you can do with PHP today), what you REALLY need (and not only what would be neat), and then later on comes the hard part which is technical where we all have to decide if it's possible/worth it/a wanted feature. When dealing with a language there are a zillion of places you can get bitten so we need to think well about how these kind of changes would effect the language on a whole, the spirit of the language, and the performance. When a user wants a feature he is not always aware of what implications the feature could have. My opinion: I would probably want to see exceptions instead of this "wacky object idea". Exceptions has its own set of problems such as performance, scope and so on, but we will give it an additional thought. At the same time, we can all bring up other ideas but not 100% ppl will be pleased because some ppl will want it one way some the other and the final result will probably be either one or something in the middle. Just keep it in mind while we'll all be discussing this and future features. Andi --- Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com> http://www.zend.com/