Re: I hope this is the last email about this :)

Zeev Suraski wrote: > At 10:01 24/10/2002, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >> Melvyn Sopacua wrote: >> >>> At 02:51 24-10-2002, Alan Knowles wrote: >>> >>>> Im +1 for reverting the patch - (for what it's worth) >>>> >>>> Why? >>>> Well - most 'average' (and below) PHP programmers when attempting to >>>> do CLI programming, will get a serious WTF reaction from wondering >>>> why when they 'echo' stuff, it doesnt appear. The more advanced >>>> Users can manually turn off flushing, but for most small, quick >>>> scripts (eg. 50%+), this instant flush is going to be perfectly >>>> acceptable.. >>> >>> >>> My thoughts exactly. Defaults should work for the masses - it's not >>> like it's enforced behavior, that is irreversible. >> >> >> ? Which mass ? >> Are you going to insist most scripts need inefficient auto flushing? >> Have you ever used other programming languages? >> >> I don't get it, but this is the 3rd vote. >> Too few still and reasoning is too weak. > > > Too few? It's 3 times more than the votes in favour, and now it's 4 > times more. Too weak? That's your opinion, and it doesn't weigh more > than others'. I'm mentioning weakness of reasoning. At least, I was tried to ;) >>> My thoughts exactly. Defaults should work for the masses - it's not >>> like it's enforced behavior, that is irreversible. implies most/many scripts/users need additional flushing. This is obviously wrong. Only very small portion of scripts need flushing for every outputs. (I'm guessing, but nobody objects right?) Even when flushing is needed function prompt($prefix) { echo $prefix; flush(); } is _TRIVIAL_ to write. People should have this kind of function instead of enabling inefficient implicit flushing since it's more efficient and reliable. Therefore, "enabling it for the *mass*/ intuitive for users" does not make sense, hence weak reasoning. If implicit flush is preferred for some scripts, it should be enabled when it is needed because the needs is obviously fewer. I agree, it's a choice but there is good and bad even if it's not clear sometimes. Why don't we follow simple rule "more needs" = default, "less needs" = optional especially when it's easy to switch. (we haven't released it yet :) BTW, please vote to this thread. It easier to follow who is voting for. http://news.php.net/article.php?group=php.dev&article=89995 Anyway, what kind of default we have for implicit flush in php.ini-dest/recommended now and in the future? We have _OFF_ by default. It also help us to make better decision, IMO. Default OFF is more intuitive, IMHO. -- Yasuo Ohgaki