RE: [PHP] Re: Why MS Won't Retire Browsers --was: Interntet Explorer 8 beater 2 [0T]

On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 09:36 -0500, Boyd, Todd M. wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ashley Sheridan [mailto:ash@ashleysheridan.co.uk] > > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 5:27 PM > > To: Jochem Maas > > Cc: Boyd, Todd M.; php-general@lists.php.net > > Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Why MS Won't Retire Browsers --was: Interntet > > Explorer 8 beater 2 > > > > On Sun, 2008-09-14 at 19:46 +0200, Jochem Maas wrote: > > > Ashley Sheridan schreef: > > > > On Sun, 2008-09-14 at 18:35 +0200, Jochem Maas wrote: > > > > > > > >> why do the vast majority people keep buying M$? > > > > > > > > Well, do they really? > > > > > > yes and no, Office is a very big cashcow if you recall. > > > > > > > I mean, most sales of Windows come from the sales > > > > of computers, because Microsoft give very nice incentives to > > retailers > > > > who bundle their OS with a PC... > > > > > > M$ structure the market in such a way that retailers et al don't > have > > any > > > choice in the matter, it's not so much 'nice incentives' as 'take > the > > hint it's > > > good for you either that or we'll burn you' > > > > > > nonetheless people still buy the PCs. but that's not the point, the > > point is > > > that the concept of choice has been completely warped to the extent > > that people > > > generally believe that being offered 400 different cartons of milk > > equates to > > > freedom ... it's a marketing trick of the highest order ... niether > > freedom > > > nor choice come into it. > > > > > > applying such convoluted concepts to linux is actually counter- > > productive, the > > > only real beneficiaries to the linux distro holy-wars are the boys > at > > M$. > > > would be interesting to know how much money M$ pump into various > > distros to keep > > > them finghting amongst themselves, I'm guessing that the figure is > > above zero. > > > > > > > It sounds a bit like when Microsoft announced how many people were > > > > downloading the IE7 browser, when in actual fact it had been > > forcing it > > > > on users with the automatic system updates, and was still counting > > those > > > > as user requested downloads! > > > > > > it's statistically proven that you can prove anything with > > statistics. > > > > > Microsoft are only remotely involved with Suse, although I think they > > did convince another distro to purchase licenses against their > > "intellectual property". Basically though, for people who know little > > of > > Linux, there are only a handful of distros to choose from, Ubuntu, > > Fedora and Suse, and Suse is aimed more at the server market than the > > *cough* > > Did you just say there are only a handful of Linux distros to choose > from?? You left out Slackware, Debian, Mandriva, openSuSE (not the same > as SuSE), PCLinuxOS, MEPIS, Knoppix (which is just Debian extended, I > guess... but so is k/x/ed/ubuntu), Gentoo, ... the list goes on. If you > left them out because people are unfamiliar with them and you were only > listing "friatureendly" distros, then several of my example still stand > (Debian, Slackware, PCL, Mandriva and Knoppix are all capable of holding > the user's hand). > > > desktop one. I've used many many different ones myself, just because > > I'm > > not so wet behind the ears now, and I know what I'm doing, and am even > > happy infront of the command line. There is little difference when you > > get to that level, and like I said, it's generally only those who are > > into Linux that are aware of quite how many distros there are. > > There is a difference, depending on what it is you're trying to do. > Default file system (ext2? ext3? reiserfs? xfs?), system directory > structure, packaged kernel headers and modules, package management > system/methodology, and the actual packages available in a distro's > repository. Granted, with software like "alien", the packages can be > converted amongst distros--but that gets a little weird sometimes. > > > I don't > > think that having many distros is actually a problem, and it's > > something > > that has naturally arisen due to the nature of Linux rather than large > > corporations encouraging arguments between factions. Linux is largely > > driven by enthusiasts (and that's not to say that you can't have paid > > enthusiasts,) who will often develop along the direction they wish, > > rather than in one unified direction. Heck, if the Linux developers > did > > that, then we'd be little better off than we are with Windows. It's > > innovation by individuals sometimes that achieves some of the greatest > > breakthroughs. > > I think you're making Linux out to be a bit more of a "hobbyist" OS than > it is. Sure, it used to be that way (hell, it was made in the first > place as Linus Torvalds' hobby), but the movement is heading in a new > direction now. With companies like Novell and Microsoft funding Linux > research (and I believe Hewlett Packard is going to be working on a > Linux distro instead of using UNIX in a lot of their servers), hardware > recognition and networking functionality have taken a much more defined > shape that would have taken years upon years to accomplish if it had > been left to just "enthusiasts". > > Don't get me wrong--I agree... Linux is pretty kick-ass. I just think > it's progressed further than many people give it credit for nowadays. > And besides... all this talk is mostly about end-user Linux experience. > I don't think Linux has received hardly any of its momentum from > end-users; more likely, it's come from Linux's staunch server > reliability and productivity. > > > Todd Boyd > Web Programmer > > > > Ah Knoppix! That baby is so useful, and I've lost count of the number of times I've used it to retrieve data from a Windows machine that was so screwed up it wouldn't even start in safe mode! Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk