Re: Status of PHP-GTK

Elizabeth M Smith wrote:

Eddie L. Hixson wrote:

On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 08:40 -0400, Bob Majdak Jr wrote:

I always love how so many people say this and so few people have/willing

Ain't that the truth.

Say What? Are you referring to coding or documentation. I have seen many people offer to help with documentation and have been put off for some reason or another.

This isn't.

No one has been "put off" by anything - but when the things that NEED to be done are listed people are scared off. Unfortunately the docs are not even in a condition where you can just "fill out information in skeletons" atm.

That's very odd. Three years ago they were in such condition, but nobody wanted to do the work then either. Loads of would-be translators, but precious few actual manual contributions once Christian and I had moved on. The manual was always auto-generated following any changes, and this is the first I've heard that it no longer works for the English edition. All I ever hear about is broken notes. The manual currently uses an adaptation of DocBook 3.17, and we have been through two new documentation-building projects for php.net manuals since that build system was written. The first of those projects (livedocs) would have required a complete rewrite to work properly with PHP-GTK docs purely because PHP documentation/DocBook isn't geared to objects; we got livedocs to build, but not to be useful. I agree that phd is a far better phpdoc build system (much faster rendering, no extended tools required for manual generation) but would dispute the need for a move to DocBook 5/phd just to get manual entries written. It's more a 'nice-to-have' than an imperative, and I recall both myself and Christian wasting a lot of time over livedocs that could have been better invested elsewhere. Both livedocs and phd assume a 'pure' DocBook base. See the ML archives for the problems with that when it comes to PHP-GTK (2001 and 2004-5).

For the documentation 1. all the docbook needs to be updated to Docbook 5 (it's at 3 now)

I believe there was some reason we didn't make the move to DocBook 4 in the first place, since it was originally in the plans. Check the ML archives.

there are several people in php-gtk working on this, if you want to help contact them (best place is freenode #php-gtk) <snip />

PHP-GTK could also do with an automake guru - there need to be some changes made to the configure stuff for HEAD that are not yet completed, but we don't currently have someone skilled enough at writing m4 macros ;)

Jani has been known to assist when we ask nicely and/or mention the need somewhere in public space. Not that m4 macros are horribly difficult, it's just when you need something to build across a wide range of systems it gets complicated. Jani has over a decade of making PHP build on a toaster behind him; you aren't going to find anyone who knows more. So really it's a case of getting PHP-GTK to build on the systems you have access to (Linux/MacOSX), and then asking for his help to broaden the range.

I have a simple Redhat Linux Fedora 9 install and can't build. If the goal is to have people use and build on it. It has to work.

If all you need is a stable build - that's what tags in cvs are for, they are release versions (if you ever want a really fun time, try building PHP CVS head on a regular basis - ah the unicode madness)

Are you trying to put people off? ;) I think what the OP was saying is that he's installed a RH package rather than built PHP-GTK from scratch. This would be the Linux equivalent of downloading a binary. (These days, it's possible to run Linux desktop and not have access to a compiler... madness IMHO, but there you go.) <snip />

If you're interested in helping with php-gtk I'd HIGHLY suggest you visit the IRC channel - it has a lot more going on than the mailing list - or introduce yourself on the php.gtk.dev list and volunteer "I'm willing to learn docbook/PhD/C and help out"

IRC shouldn't have a lot more going on than the mailing list, full stop, because it means there is no way for anyone outside the current working group to know what's going on. I for one had no idea any of the projects you mentioned above were under way; I only knew about Madeleine's ongoing quest for notes, and that's because she keeps the ML informed. And the OP thought PHP-GTK was a dead project. - Steph

Thanks, Elizabeth

Eddie

to donate the time to do something about it. - bob. Harald Thoeny wrote:

the documentation on the website is a mess ! we had a thread on this list with frustrated doc writers.... myself is also waiting for a better doc system! greetings harald Madeleine D. wrote:

Not really stale at all, just quiet on this list. Those who have the skills are busy working on an update. There's a lot of daily activity via kksou.com, some via Gnope.org and even more via IRC. I think part of the problem is the broken web site for gtk.php.net, which sends people off in different directions, but so far, no luck on getting fixed. Madeleine D. Eddie L. Hixson wrote:

Has this project become stale? What is the future of php-gtk? I hear no chatter from the list. Eddie