RE: [PHP-DEV] Runtime-JIT, the whole enchilada

Sorry for the spam (I'm a bit behind). I agree 100% with Dmitry. Guys (n'girls), I don't know if you've realized but the engine has become much involved. We've added a lot of new features in PHP 5 and beyond, Unicode has muliplied that by 2, we added some performance features and we've just more or less managed to solve some of the ugly issues with return by reference and overloaded properties. I think we need to move into a state of mind now that adding additional implementation complexity is a last and not a first resort. Otherwise it'll end up being impossible to maintain all the interdependencies. I said the same with past features during PHP 5 where I warned that they might introduce bugs in other areas but it's hard to forsee. No one believed me because I couldn't give a concrete enough example and we had quite a few of those bugs afterwards. As some point the platform has to be the one that grows and not the language. So if we need to evolve it to have a different way of fetching input variables that's what we should do. You don't see other languages change every day because of a higher level requirement. And have no doubt, PHP 6 will take a long time to truly stabilize and make consistent because there've been huge changes. Andi > -----Original Message----- > From: Dmitry Stogov [mailto:dmitry@zend.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:51 AM > To: 'Pierre'; 'Andrei Zmievski' > Cc: 'Sara Golemon'; internals@lists.php.net; 'Andi Gutmans'; > 'Zeev Suraski'; 'Stanislav Malyshev' > Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Runtime-JIT, the whole enchilada > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pierre [mailto:pierre.php@gmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:16 PM > > To: Andrei Zmievski > > Cc: Dmitry Stogov; Sara Golemon; internals@lists.php.net; Andi > > Gutmans; Zeev Suraski; Stanislav Malyshev > > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Runtime-JIT, the whole enchilada > > > > > > Hello Andrei, > > > > On 1/27/07, Andrei Zmievski <andrei@gravitonic.com> wrote: > > > Good luck trying to retrain millions of programmers to use a CGI > > > object or a function to retrieve GPC values. > > > > You will be surprised, really :) > > > > > Really, how much of a > > > performance hit is Sara's patch going to be, compared to > > other things > > > in PHP 6? > > > > It is to early to argue about performance problems in my humble > > opinion. My point was more about the complexity. > > Agree 100%. The slowdown is not large (may be 1%), but > internal dependencies are to complex. > This solution may be similar to "indirect modification of > overloaded properties" or "return by reference", then > mistakes give hundreds of bug reports and takes years for > completely fix. > > > That's why I prefer the other solution which simply moves > the JIT to > > runtime without other changes but a function to get the encoding > > error. > > > > To be honest, I do not understand the resistance to commit > > experimental code in head. For what really matters, we need > a working > > solution. It does not need to be perfert, it needs to work (more or > > less). We still have plenty of time to improve it until 6 > is out (not > > going to happen in the next months anyway). > > I cannot restrict commits, I only tell my opinion. > If the patch will be fixed for opcode caches, and most of > developers will vote for it, it can go. > > Dmitry. >