Re: Re: CVS ACL's have been activated

Although I admit I haven't read SourceForge's code, I wouldn't disregard Manuel's suggestion so quickly. It definitely has some pretty cool stuff and I don't remember us discussing it (then again I'm a bit senile so we might have :). Anyway, I'm just saying it's not a "dumb" suggestion although it probably won't happen at least not in the near future. Andi At 11:43 PM 1/7/2001 -0800, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:

Manuel, there are plenty of things in all open source projects that aren't discussed publically. PHP is no different in this respect. I am involved in quite a few and see the politics and inner-circle discussions that go on and trust me when I say that PHP is probably the most open of the bunch I am involved with. As for SourceForge. Like I said, I know this code inside out. I have deployed it in the past. I have debugged it. I am pretty sure I have worked with it more than you or any of the other PHP core folks and thus feel quite qualified to compare it to the existing tools we are using for PHP development. You are not familiar with what we currently have, and you most likely don't know the inner workings of SourceForge as well as I do. The SorceForge code solves a whole lot of problems we don't have and it doesn't address a whole lot of stuff we currently have. There is overlap, but the work that would be required to switch to it, get everyone used to it, add all the stuff it doesn't do, remove all the stuff we don't need, is all time that is better spent actually working on PHP. Sort of like me answering all these rants from you. And damn, stop calling us communists. -Rasmus On 8 Jan 2001, Manuel Lemos wrote: Hello Zak, On 08-Jan-01 04:09:34, you wrote:

I have looked at SourceForge code plenty. And no we won;t be

moving to

it.

Wow! That's was quickest denial that I got from you to yet another suggestion of mine! It seems that even other PHP developers were not consulted!

IIRC the core developers discussed this issue a few months ago.

But there was no public discussion. Maybe it was not worthy. Anyway, I just can't stand the hipocrisy of a so called opened community that decides things like a closed communist commitee.

I even asked you to take some time before saying no again. I wonder if I have to use child psychology with you! Never mind! :-(

Don't antagonize the man - that really won't get anyone further along. How would you have felt if I had written you recently stating that I would like you to use a different codebase for your form class?

At least I would ask why.

You would probably tell me to piss off - and quite rightly so. :)

How many times I do that to people that show up voluntarily presenting suggestions apparently to improve my work?

Rasmus is amazingly terse. I know that many have expressed feelings that this makes him tough to handle at times - especially when you combine his communication style with the weight that he has in the community.

However, despite his position, he is still subject to the same checks and balances that everyone else on this list is subject to.

If someone steps out of line, then one or more of their peers (or betters) will call them on it or try to reason the issue with them.

Grown up people would not need that.

Is Rasmus out of line on this issue - not in my opinion.

Perhaps he could have saved your feelings by explaining his reasons, however I can guess that the reason that Rasmus is so damn curt is because he has *no* time.

When I have no time I don't even answer. He took less than 5 minutes to send me a private message that I deliberately took to the public again because I am fed up of being burned in public just because I raise pertinent questions, especially regarding improving PHP development. Sometimes I wonder why I still care. These days I no longer program in PHP. I use a meta-programming environment that can generates code in any language. The latest components in the PHP Classes site are no longer in hand made PHP. Quietly I will be moving to non-PHP specific development. Maybe I will dedicate more time to Perl because it is more useful to my current job. I no longer have the motivation to dedicate to this language. Things could have been different but I was left out too many times. :-( Regards, Manuel Lemos Web Programming Components using PHP Classes. Look at: http://phpclasses.UpperDesign.com/?user=mlemos@acm.org -- E-mail: mlemos@acm.org URL: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ PGP key: http://www.mlemos.e-na.net/ManuelLemos.pgp -- -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: php-cvs-unsubscribe@lists.php.net For additional commands, e-mail: php-cvs-help@lists.php.net To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list-admin@lists.php.net -- PHP CVS Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: php-cvs-unsubscribe@lists.php.net For additional commands, e-mail: php-cvs-help@lists.php.net To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list-admin@lists.php.net