Re: Proposal of removing PHP4 references from the manual

On 15 July 2014 14:16, Maciej Sobaczewski <msobaczewski@gmail.com> wrote: > The current PHP Manual has had a number of PHP 4-specific things already >> removed entirely, as we've discussed. While a current snapshot would >> create a clear line in the sand, it's missing chunks that I think people >> will be looking for. I'd prefer that we take the time to provide a >> useful archive by, for example, re-instating the removed extensions >> > > Or maybe just determine old enough revision? I have no idea when were they > removed, so I don't know if such revision has correct markup we are using > today. It's just an idea. > > > (e.g. domxml). Not that anyone has suggested this, but I don't think we >> can realistically remove everything PHP 5-related to leave a PHP 4 >> manual (or, can we?). >> > > It's rather diffictult and I see two ways here: > - trying to remove as many things unrelated to PHP 4 as we can - it's very > hard to do, if we don't want dead links for example > > - make a snapshot without further changes - very easy for us and PHP 4 > users will get manual no worse than now. > > > I'm undecided here. On the one hand, it would be nice to see the "full" >> history of a function or feature ("Yo dawg, that function has been >> around since, like, forever!"). On the other hand, who cares? So long >> as we can see things that might be relevant to the version(s) of PHP >> that I'm using. If we're going to go to the trouble of creating a >> snapshot/archive, can we just nuke PHP 4 entirely from the "current" >> manual? >> > > I fully understand your nostalgia, but without that we will end in a place > where we are now. It has to be done sooner or later. Similarly we don't > have changelog entries for PHP 3. Yes, I know they were created long time > after last PHP 3.x release, but our manual doesn't contain pieces of > informations related to 3.x at all and noone cares. PHP 4 *is* historical > now. On the other hand, we don't leave our PHP 4 users completely, they > still be able to download appropriate version. > > > I'm not sure that having a version string at the top of the page say >> "(PHP 5)" then having a changelog entry saying "PHP 4.0.1: Function >> xyz() was added." makes a whole heap of sense. Half of me is saying, >> "get rid of PHP 4 entirely". The other half is nostalgic for those good >> old PHP 4 days. Yet another half (yes, three halves) wants there to be >> somewhere, anywhere, *in the PHP Manual* which tells me when a >> function/feature was introduced, even if it was in PHP 4. >> > > I probably just answered it above. However, it is only my opinion, > obviously. > > > >> * The current structure/layout was created with PHP 3 in mind, >> with minor updates along the way. This might explain why the >> appendix has grown out of control, why advanced features can >> be hidden (not kept in mind when writing related docs), and >> so on. Rethink our structure? Also, too much PECL clutter? >> - One day yes, not right now ;) >> >> >> I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, maybe off-list. :) >> > > I'm also very interested in your ideas on that :) Maybe create another > topic discussing it? > > > I think that much we can all agree on. A remaining question is, what >> sort of archive will be "good enough"? >> > > For me, remaining question is: how many informations do we agree to get > rid off? Changelog entries? versions.xml? Both of them should stay? > > Personally, I think if we're doing this then let's go all the way. No PHP 4 chapters*, changelogs, versions, inline mentions, 4-to-5 migration guide, and such like. (* Except php.net/manual/php4.php page.) > Kind regards, > Maciej.