Re: Proposal of removing PHP4 references from the manual

W dniu 2014-07-15 15:37, Peter Cowburn pisze:

On 15 July 2014 14:16, Maciej Sobaczewski <msobaczewski@gmail.com <mailto:msobaczewski@gmail.com>> wrote:

        The current PHP Manual has had a number of PHP 4-specific things
        already
        removed entirely, as we've discussed. While a current snapshot would
        create a clear line in the sand, it's missing chunks that I
        think people
        will be looking for.  I'd prefer that we take the time to provide a
        useful archive by, for example, re-instating the removed extensions

    Or maybe just determine old enough revision? I have no idea when
    were they removed, so I don't know if such revision has correct
    markup we are using today. It's just an idea.

        (e.g. domxml). Not that anyone has suggested this, but I don't
        think we
        can realistically remove everything PHP 5-related to leave a PHP 4
        manual (or, can we?).

    It's rather diffictult and I see two ways here:
    - trying to remove as many things unrelated to PHP 4 as we can -
    it's very hard to do, if we don't want dead links for example

    - make a snapshot without further changes - very easy for us and PHP
    4 users will get manual no worse than now.

        I'm undecided here. On the one hand, it would be nice to see the
        "full"
        history of a function or feature ("Yo dawg, that function has been
        around since, like, forever!").  On the other hand, who cares?
        So long
        as we can see things that might be relevant to the version(s) of PHP
        that I'm using.  If we're going to go to the trouble of creating a
        snapshot/archive, can we just nuke PHP 4 entirely from the
        "current" manual?

    I fully understand your nostalgia, but without that we will end in a
    place where we are now. It has to be done sooner or later. Similarly
    we don't have changelog entries for PHP 3. Yes, I know they were
    created long time after last PHP 3.x release, but our manual doesn't
    contain pieces of informations related to 3.x at all and noone
    cares. PHP 4 *is* historical now. On the other hand, we don't leave
    our PHP 4 users completely, they still be able to download
    appropriate version.

        I'm not sure that having a version string at the top of the page say
        "(PHP 5)" then having a changelog entry saying "PHP 4.0.1: Function
        xyz() was added." makes a whole heap of sense.  Half of me is
        saying,
        "get rid of PHP 4 entirely". The other half is nostalgic for
        those good
        old PHP 4 days. Yet another half (yes, three halves) wants there
        to be
        somewhere, anywhere, *in the PHP Manual* which tells me when a
        function/feature was introduced, even if it was in PHP 4.

    I probably just answered it above. However, it is only my opinion,
    obviously.

                * The current structure/layout was created with PHP 3 in
        mind,
                  with minor updates along the way. This might explain
        why the
                  appendix has grown out of control, why advanced
        features can
                  be hidden (not kept in mind when writing related
        docs), and
                  so on. Rethink our structure? Also, too much PECL clutter?
                  - One day yes, not right now ;)

        I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, maybe off-list. :)

    I'm also very interested in your ideas on that :) Maybe create
    another topic discussing it?

        I think that much we can all agree on. A remaining question is, what
        sort of archive will be "good enough"?

    For me, remaining question is: how many informations do we agree to
    get rid off? Changelog entries? versions.xml? Both of them should stay?

Personally, I think if we're doing this then let's go all the way. No PHP 4 chapters*, changelogs, versions, inline mentions, 4-to-5 migration guide, and such like. (* Except php.net/manual/php4.php <http://php.net/manual/php4.php> page.)

I agree on everything besides of migration guide. It should be available online. However, maybe moving it to php4.php is good idea. Your approach seems to be more consistent. Thanks, Maciej.