Re: Improving Mailing-List interactions - was: [PHP-DEV] Moving PHP internals to GitHub

> On 13 Apr 2023, at 09:29, Andreas Heigl <andreas@heigl.org> wrote: > > Hey all > > On 12.04.23 22:44, Larry Garfield wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023, at 6:42 PM, Rowan Tommins wrote: >>> Which brings me back to my earlier point: I wonder how much of the >>> reaction is really about e-mail itself, and how much is just the >>> documentation and sign-up forms you encounter *before* you hit the list. >>> Because if it's the latter, migrating the entire community to a new >>> platform won't help - we'll still suck at introducing anyone to that >>> platform - and most of what we need is someone who's good with words to >>> update some website copy. >> I agree, and it's a common pattern, both here and in the earlier thread about >> deprecations/evolution. >> Problems exist. Both with the mailing list setup we have, and the evolution/deprecation >> process. It's not reasonable to deny either. >> But so often, people lead with "and here's why we should rm -rf and start >> over" or "and here's why you're all terrible" or other extremely >> not-helpful "suggestions." That poisons the well, and totally saps any energy for working >> on the things that can and should be improved incrementally. >> It makes me very sad, because if someone were actually to volunteer to overhaul the mailing >> list signup process and verify that it actually, you know, works reliably, there's a good >> chance they'd be greeted with open arms. (And a fair amount of access skepticism I'm >> sure, but still, it's no secret that we'd benefit from that.) But that's not what >> happens. > > I would like to take this as a first step: > > As I already do have access to the lists-server I'm happy to work on improving the lists > usability. > > So far I see three different things: > > 1. Remove modification of the emails on the lists server so that DKIM and DMARC will finally > work > 2. Improve/Update the interfaces of https://www.php.net/mailing-lists.php > > 3. Update (or possibly completely remove?) > https://www.php.net/unsub.php > > The latest is linke in the added footer that would be removed by step 1 and that should be > unnecessary anyhow as the list-unsubscribe header already should provide the email-clients with a > way to show an unsubscribe button right in the email. > > Any volunteers helping are welcome! > > And please do voice concerns regarding point 1!!!! > > Cheers > > Andreas > > -- > ,,, > (o o) > +---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+ > | Andreas Heigl | > | mailto:andreas@heigl.org N > 50°22'59.5" E 08°23'58" | > | https://andreas.heigl.org > | > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | https://hei.gl/appointmentwithandreas > | > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | GPG-Key: https://hei.gl/keyandreasheiglorg > | > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Hi Andreas, As someone who rejoined this list in the last 12 months and went through the process I'm happy to volunteer to help. Best wishes, Matt