Re: New Zend Framework

Hi, Ian Warner wrote:

Zend's Framework has about 16 packages. Many of them revolve around the MVC framework, which PEAR does not have (nor will it ever have from my understanding). PEAR, on the other hand, has over 200 packages covering everything from logging to chemistry to payment processing. PEAR also supports package/code distribution, much like RPM and deb packages. PEAR is a thriving developer community that's open and supported by the core PHP group. Not sure how much of a "competition" there really is since Zend Framework and PEAR have fairly unrelated goals and only overlap in a few areas. --Joe On Jun 29, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Ian Warner wrote:

Hi How do you think this will impact on PEARs popularity and why do you think Zend are going into competition with PEAR, it seems a strange move for them to do Thoughts and comments and anyone used it yet or contributed? http://framework.zend.com/ Ian --PEAR General Mailing List (http://pear.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Joe You state that PEAR is a thriving community, in my eyes that means that help is on hand for newcomers and elder statesmen alike - I have asked several questions recently and also tried to help others out and you are the only one to answer and this wasn't requesting any help on a package, just trying to stimulate debate!

It's summer you know. Most people would rather go to a beach than indulge in a pointless discussion. ;]

Is this newsgroup / list the best place to ask for help - or are the better resources? I note that on the Zend forums there was a lot of activity, and also they have a pretty good wiki with help docs on the various packages, does Pear have an official forum?

Yes it is the best place. But please note that unlike Zend Framework there are no people *paid* to answer your questions here. The wiki they use is a commercial product by the way (it is also written in Java rather than in enterprise-ready Zend-enabled buzzword-driven PHP). Would you sponsor a license for its installation on PEAR website? Would you sponsor a Vbulletin license either?

We have moved a big project over to using PEAR packages and I would like to know that PEAR has a plan for the future, it seems that there is no visible documentation that states where PEAR will evolve too.

Yes, there is an official plan: PEAR will die a slow and painful death in the upcoming 2 months. Now, are you feeling more confident?

Will PEAR move onto subversion?

What for? It isn't mandatory to keep package source in PEAR CVS anyway, people needing SVN may keep their packages outside.

Will it get a wiki, forum?

As soon as you sponsor 'em.

I would like to help out as much as possible as it is in my interest now also, so let me know, the main thing that worries me is that PEAR is not attractive to new PHP developers, similar to English football if you don't nurture the grass roots then you will end up losing the battle in the quarters!

You made a standard mistake of confusing the corporate software distributed under open source license with a community-driven project. A community driven project does not have * Paid people to support infrastructure / money to buy needed software or hardware; it relies on donations and volunteer work. * Marketing people, money to bribe "independent" "objective" journalists. Now, if you look for example at MySQL's website (corporate software under Open Source license) it looks way cooler than PostgreSQL's (community project). Unfortunately, the product this cool website supports is still inadequate compared to PostgreSQL. Also there are dozens of MySQL cheerleaders all over the internet due to their brilliant (although quite FUDdy) marketing. I can predict that we'll soon see dozens of Zend Framework cheerleaders as well.