Re: [SMARTY-DEV] Is Smarty using PHP output buffering?

And I say again: it is NOT Smarty's job to deal with output buffering. Period. Regards David ----- Original Message ----- From: "luis" <luis@fuegolabs.com> To: "'Tom Anderson'" <toma@etree.org>; "'Smarty Dev'" <smarty-dev@lists.php.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:40 PM Subject: RE: [SMARTY-DEV] Is Smarty using PHP output buffering? > Some thoughts > > IMHO smarty should default to the most efficient option when many > leaving a switch so specific installations can change the setting to the > not-so-efficient option if they have a problem (ie: low memory). > That's why in my opinion display should use OB by default. > Why force developers to use OB to gain performance if Smarty can do it > transparently? > If display with OB is faster than display without OB display should use > OB by default and there should be an option to turn OB off if the > devel/sysadmin wants to do it for some reason. > I think we should even add a swith to the Smarty class to use gzipped > output, applications using Smarty in web servers without mod_gzip may > benefit a lot of this switch. Since if mod_gzip or similar is used this > is highly redundant I think Smarty should default to OB on without > compression. > I understand that if gzip is used OB is also redudant but tests show > that the performance is almost the same so we can default to OB on > without any visible problem. > > Since fetch is already using OB from a developer point of view fetch and > display should work identically being the only difference that display > outputs the result while fetch doesn't. > > Somehow my tests show that echo fetch is even faster than ob_start and > then display(), maybe somebody can explain this. > > Of course I'm not complaining or yelling, I just think we have a good > opportunity to improve Smarty performance so why not use it? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Anderson [mailto:toma@etree.org] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:19 PM > > To: 'Smarty Dev' > > Subject: RE: [SMARTY-DEV] Is Smarty using PHP output buffering? > > > > > > It's fine to use OB, but I still don't think it's up to > > Smarty to turn it on for the user. > > > > There are a lot of ways to speed up pages using output > > buffering, but, per the manual: > > http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.ob-gzhandler.php > > "Also > > note that using ini.zlib.output_compression is preferred > > over ob_gzhandler()." > > > > If you feel really strongly about the benefits of Smarty + > > OB, then I think a section should be added to the Tips and > > Tricks which explains output buffering, why it's good, what > > options are ideal, and how to do it. Even put notes in > > > > http://smarty.php.net/manual/en/installing.smarty.basic.php > > pointing to the appendix and recommend OB is turned on at the > > same time a smarty object is created. > > > > Tom > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: luis [mailto:luis@fuegolabs.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 3:16 PM > > To: 'Monte Ohrt' > > Cc: 'Tom Anderson'; 'Smarty Dev' > > Subject: RE: [SMARTY-DEV] Is Smarty using PHP output buffering? > > > > > > I think it's worth comparing the degradation when using OB in > > conjuction with mod_gzip versus the improvement of using it. > > If we have App foo without > > OB: 3 secs App foo with OB: 2.5 secs App foo with gzip > > without OB: 2.25 secs APP foo with gzip with OB 2.30 secs > > Then the case for using OB is strong. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Monte Ohrt [mailto:monte@ispi.net] > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:12 PM > > > To: luis > > > Cc: 'Tom Anderson'; Smarty Dev > > > Subject: RE: [SMARTY-DEV] Is Smarty using PHP output buffering? > > > > > > > > > There is a disadvantage, it was just mentioned. Those using > > mod_gzip > > > on the Apache level see a performance degrade because the > > output gets > > > buffered twice. In my tests I see a very slight performance degrade > > > when using OB in combination with mod_gzip. Is suppose a property > > > could be added $use_output_buffering that forced OB on a display() > > > call, but the same can be accomplished with echo fetch(), > > or turn on > > > OB in php.ini to get the benefits across the board. > > > > > > Monte > > > > > > On Tue, 2003-05-06 at 16:05, luis wrote: > > > > I can't understand how OB falls outside te scope of Smarty > > > "except of > > > > fetch". If fetch uses OB and is faster than display and > > there're no > > > > bad side-effects then display should use OB too. If we > > discover some > > > > disadvantages in using OB I'll > > > inmediately retreat > > > > the proposal just don't say "it's outside the scope of > > > smarty" improving > > > > is never outside the scope of Smarty. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Tom Anderson [mailto:toma@etree.org] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 5:47 PM > > > > > To: smarty-dev@lists.php.net > > > > > Subject: RE: [SMARTY-DEV] Is Smarty using PHP output buffering? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really think global output buffering for smarty is a bad idea. > > > > > For instance, it would slow down a server which has mod_gzip > > > > > installed. Doing buffering in php and in apache, as mod_gzip > > > > > would, is just using more memory than needed. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think turning on/off output buffering through a smarty > > > > > function is right either. Except in the case of > > fetch(), output > > > > > buffering falls outside the scope of Smarty. > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: luis [mailto:luis@fuegolabs.com] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 2:38 PM > > > > > To: 'Thomas Schulz'; smarty-dev@lists.php.net > > > > > Subject: RE: [SMARTY-DEV] Is Smarty using PHP output buffering? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. If OB is faster then Smarty should use OB > > > > > transparently to the user/developer. It's not fair to ask a > > > > > developer to fetch when there's a display method based on > > > > > performance issues. The two methods should do the same > > internally, > > > > > the semantic difference is whether the method outputs > > the content > > > > > or not. > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > Luis Argerich ( ) ASCII Ribbon Campaign > > > > > http://tikiwiki.sourceforge.net X > > > > > against HTML on email > > > > > "There's no spoon" / \ and Usenet > > > > > posts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Thomas Schulz [mailto:ths@4bconsult.de] > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 5:23 PM > > > > > > To: smarty-dev@lists.php.net > > > > > > Subject: RE: [SMARTY-DEV] Is Smarty using PHP output > > buffering? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monte Ohrt schrieb in php.smarty.dev: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just ran a test on our CMS front page, gzip enabled, no > > > > > > > caching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > display() --> 1.724 secs/page > > > > > > > echo fetch() --> 1.751 secs/page > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I think gzip does some output buffering... > > > > > > > > > > > > When I render the main template of my application, that > > > > > includes some > > > > > > other templates and plugins (which fetch other > > templates) I get > > > > > > these results: > > > > > > > > > > > > display() --> 0.65 secs/page > > > > > > echo fetch() --> 0.38 secs/page > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think there is nothing to change in Smarty. If a > > > > > programmer want > > > > > > to have full control over output-buffering, he can use > > > fetch()... > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > http://4bconsult.de > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Smarty Development Mailing List (http://smarty.php.net/) To > > > > > > unsubscribe, visit: > > > > > > http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Smarty Development Mailing List (http://smarty.php.net/) To > > > > > unsubscribe, visit: > > > > > http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Smarty Development Mailing List (http://smarty.php.net/) To > > > > > unsubscribe, visit: > > > > > http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > > > > -- > > > Monte Ohrt <monte@ispi.net> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Smarty Development Mailing List (http://smarty.php.net/) > > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > > > > > -- > > Smarty Development Mailing List (http://smarty.php.net/) > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > -- > Smarty Development Mailing List (http://smarty.php.net/) > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >