Re: PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

Am 02-Mar-2022 15:19:54 +0100 schrieb andreas@heigl.org: > Hey. > > On 02.03.22 14:56, naitsirch@e.mail.de wrote: > > > > > > Am 02-Mar-2022 13:51:07 +0100 schrieb ocramius@gmail.com: > >> > >> Hey Christian, > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 1:41 PM <naitsirch@e.mail.de> wrote: > >>> this is exactly the problem. Russia did not just invaded Ukrainia out of nowhere. > >>> The story started in 2014 with the illegal coup d'etat against Viktor Yanukovych and its > >>> acceptance by the western countries. Or even earlier, with the eastern extension of the EU and the > >>> Nato, to get Ukriane on their side, stoping the political neutrality of Ukraine between Russia and > >>> the western. > >>> > >>> As you see, it is not as simple. Should we start a discussion now? I do not think > >>> so. It would not help anybody. Wars or conflicts are never simple. Usually there's a long > >>> story. > >>> Taking ones side in political conflicts will separate the community for sure. > >>> > >>> Please do not start that. > >>> > >>> You and anybody else can show their political position on twitter, facebook or > >>> elsewhere. We do not need to do that on php.net. > >> > >> Please GTFO: we don't need more of Putin's propaganda over here, as > >> they're busy enough with butchering civilians over there. > >> > >> Greets, > >> > >> Marco Pivetta > > > > Hi Marco, > > > > this is exactly what I meant. It leads to separation of the community and hate against > > each other. You judge my statement as Putin propaganda although I have not said I am supporting > > Putin or the war. I only wanted to make clear, that if we start to support Ukraine as the victimized > > party in this conflict we have to do that in other conflicts, too. > > > > Look at the Iraquis who were attacked by the USA, the Uyghurs in China, the poulation in > > Noth Korea or the war in Yemen. Thousands of people are dying there every year and nobody is raising > > his voice. > The US attack against Iraq was ... debateable but is by now history. > Yes: We perhaps should have taken a side at that time! We can learn from > that! > > The other things you mention are state-internal affairs that are far > from being OK! Don't get me wrong on that! But they do not qualify as > invading a separate country! As an act of war. The attack of the USA against Iraq wasn't internal. But apart of that, internal affairs can cost more people their life as an international war. Is your issue the political act of a war, or the death of humans? > They are internal affairs > and as such sadly qualify differently. And despite us having ideas about > human rights etc taking sides in an internal affair always has a > connotation of Colonialism.. "We know it better". But in the case of > Ukraine there is a clear aggressor that has invaded an independent > country which is against all internationally agreed upon laws, rules and > regulations. Not standing up against that silently tolerates that > behaviour. Which is not something I like to endorse. > > And standing up against the injustice against the Ukraine does not > negate the other injustices around the world. Whether that is the way > women are being treated by the new Afghanistan government, the uigurs in > China are treated, the whole mess in and around Israel or the way POC > are treated in the US. And this totally incomplete list is in no way > trying to compare these different things with one another. > > Maybe I can give you an example to make clear what I mean: If the banner for the Ukraine > > is shown on php.net. I could request a banner for the people in Hong Kong who are suppressed by > > China, too. If you refuse it, it would be very unfair. If you say "yes" there should come > > more requests. Then php internals will have to create rules when php.net should show its solidarity > > and when not. > > The rule would be: Internal affairs are shit but they are exactly that: > Internal affairs. A war of aggression (one country attacking another one > without the justification of self-defence) IMO justifies solidarity with > the attacked country. Why does the killing of people by other people of the same country not justify solidary with that group? Sorry I cannot follow this point. When the German regime killed millions of Jews during the Holocaust (sorry for taking that as an example) this was an (very horrible) internal affair. But it is not less terrible as the war in Ukraine (btw I am german). > > Cheers > > Andreas Best regards Christian