Re: PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 3:14 PM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 5:32 PM Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:53 PM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:40 PM Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:36 PM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov <crocodile2u@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: Do >>>>>> you >>>>>> > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for the >>>>>> > PHP >>>>>> homepage? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns over >>>>>> Mr. >>>>>> > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. >>>>>> > I'm a >>>>>> pacifist >>>>>> > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be *on >>>>>> > the PHP >>>>>> home >>>>>> > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people have >>>>>> gathered >>>>>> > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to >>>>>> cause >>>>>> > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?). >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again >>>>>> > madness" >>>>>> > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so many >>>>>> > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so >>>>>> little >>>>>> > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating >>>>>> something >>>>>> > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is >>>>>> > something we >>>>>> can agree >>>>>> > to, without destroying any connections within community. >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war". I would have >>>>>> absolutely no >>>>>> objection to that one. >>>>>> >>>>> As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is terrible >>>>> and should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is >>>>> justified. >>>>> -- >>>>> Chase Peeler >>>>> chasepeeler@gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> In that case, I think we should scrap this idea altogether. I mean, if >>>> we can't even agree that war (i.e. institutionalized mass murder) is a bad >>>> thing, then there's no statement we could make on this that wouldn't >>>> divide >>>> our community. >>>> >>>> I agree we should scrap this for the many reasons people have given >>> earlier. However, you are misquoting me. I said war was a terrible thing. >>> Sometimes, though, the alternative is worse. I point you to WW2. How many >>> more would have died in the holocaust if the allies had not gone to war >>> against the axis powers? >>> -- >>> Chase Peeler >>> chasepeeler@gmail.com >>> >> >> From a philosophical perspective, it could be argued that the war was >> already underway. And since Hitler started that war to conquer, I would >> argue that WWII, like every other war, was unnecessary. >> > > > If no one had fought back, would it have really been a war? > >> >> That's not to say it wasn't necessary for the allies to get involved. >> But we didn't start that war, and it most certainly was not necessary for >> Germany to invade Poland. >> > > Exactly my point. We can say we are against war as much as we want, but > there are evil people in this world that will still prey on others. When > that happens, “good men” are sometimes forced to fight back. > > >> Fighting a war to end a war is one thing. Starting a war, on the other >> > > Yep. So you’ve already made caveats to your absolute statement, which was > my point. > >> >> -- > Chase Peeler > chasepeeler@gmail.com > No we're just going by different standards. When I say war is unnecessary, I'm not talking about fighting an existing war. I'm talking about starting a war. And it doesn't have to be a formal declaration, either. The British effectively waged war against my people before we finally started fighting back. Wars begin when some asshole with a lot of power decides he wants to use that power to take what doesn't belong to him. War is nothing more than people murdering each other and destroying humanity's accomplishments.