Re: PHP Community to support Ukraine and help to stop Russian agression

Voting for an rfc could be a quickest way to make a decision, since the community does not have a consensus about the topic. On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 6:33 PM Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 3:14 PM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 5:32 PM Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:53 PM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:40 PM Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 12:36 PM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 10:17 AM Victor Bolshov <crocodile2u@gmail.com > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 14:26, Kris Craig > >>>>>> > <kris.craig@gmail.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > Specifically, I would direct this question to Pierre and Viktor: > Do > >>>>>> you > >>>>>> > believe that "Arrest Dictator Putin" is appropriate for > >>>>>> > the PHP > >>>>>> homepage? > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > As a Russian who fled his country because of arising concerns > >>>>>> > over > >>>>>> Mr. > >>>>>> > Putin's regime, I find any words against him, appropriate. > >>>>>> > I'm a > >>>>>> pacifist > >>>>>> > but I probably would try to kill him if I was given a chance. > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > Speaking about how appropriate "Arrest Putin" would be > >>>>>> > *on the PHP > >>>>>> home > >>>>>> > page*, I'd say no, because I see how many different people > >>>>>> > have > >>>>>> gathered > >>>>>> > here. We see that even Ukranian flag on PHP homepage is going to > >>>>>> cause > >>>>>> > tensions (what about Iraq & Viet Nam?). > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > Starting this discussion, I had in mind the "sanity again > >>>>>> > madness" > >>>>>> > mentality. I even feel sorry now for how this thread brings so > many > >>>>>> > disagreements and sol little compromise, so many emotions and so > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> > reason. I still think though that in times like this, stating > >>>>>> something > >>>>>> > like "PHP is against war" is very timely, and it is > >>>>>> > something we > >>>>>> can agree > >>>>>> > to, without destroying any connections within community. > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> +1 for a banner that says "PHP is against war". I would > >>>>>> have > >>>>>> absolutely no > >>>>>> objection to that one. > >>>>>> > >>>>> As I’ve said before, I would have a problem with this. War is > terrible > >>>>> and should be avoided at all costs. However, there are times it is > >>>>> justified. > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Chase Peeler > >>>>> chasepeeler@gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> In that case, I think we should scrap this idea altogether. I mean, > if > >>>> we can't even agree that war (i.e. institutionalized mass murder) is > a bad > >>>> thing, then there's no statement we could make on this that wouldn't > divide > >>>> our community. > >>>> > >>>> I agree we should scrap this for the many reasons people have given > >>> earlier. However, you are misquoting me. I said war was a terrible > thing. > >>> Sometimes, though, the alternative is worse. I point you to WW2. How > many > >>> more would have died in the holocaust if the allies had not gone to war > >>> against the axis powers? > >>> -- > >>> Chase Peeler > >>> chasepeeler@gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> From a philosophical perspective, it could be argued that the war was > >> already underway. And since Hitler started that war to conquer, I would > >> argue that WWII, like every other war, was unnecessary. > >> > > > > > > If no one had fought back, would it have really been a war? > > > >> > >> That's not to say it wasn't necessary for the allies to get involved. > >> But we didn't start that war, and it most certainly was not necessary > for > >> Germany to invade Poland. > >> > > > > Exactly my point. We can say we are against war as much as we want, but > > there are evil people in this world that will still prey on others. When > > that happens, “good men” are sometimes forced to fight back. > > > > > >> Fighting a war to end a war is one thing. Starting a war, on the other > >> > > > > Yep. So you’ve already made caveats to your absolute statement, which was > > my point. > > > >> > >> -- > > Chase Peeler > > chasepeeler@gmail.com > > > > No we're just going by different standards. When I say war is unnecessary, > I'm not talking about fighting an existing war. I'm talking about starting > a war. > > And it doesn't have to be a formal declaration, either. The British > effectively waged war against my people before we finally started fighting > back. > > Wars begin when some asshole with a lot of power decides he wants to use > that power to take what doesn't belong to him. War is nothing more than > people murdering each other and destroying humanity's accomplishments. >