Re: removal of this list

Hi Helgi, Helgi Þormar Þorbjörnsson wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Greg Beaver <greg@chiaraquartet.net> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> As incredible as this is to me, Travis's blog post >> >> http://www.travisswicegood.com/index.php/2009/06/02/my-goals-for-the-php-standards-group >> makes it clear that the purpose of the standards list is to actively >> shut out input from the outside world because of statements like this: >> > > I have been just observing this whole thing from the sidelines since I > couldn't attend said meeting shy of 5 minutes due to me being sick and > intended to construct a nice long email answering various people as > well as I could. > > Greg now I just must answer you with a short post. > I'm not entirely sure if you are being ticked of with this whole thing > because there is a point in what was decided on which you were opposed > to 2 years ago and still are. Maybe it's another thing ? > I am ticked off for 2 reasons (which if they are not clear, I will enumerate again) 1) there are several points in the standard that are not sound for reasons listed earlier 2) the process of developing a standard must be open, otherwise it will not be a useful standard > I want to make it clear that starting this mailing list so early after > the meeting was a blatant mistake. > > Why ? > > Because the meeting was a spur of the moment thing, decided at > conference, to take an idea that had just been a dream and actually > sit down and talk about it. > What was not done was to talk about the process this group would > follow, how things would be decided on, how new members would be voted > in and so on, you know, what keeps a group together and on course. > Time between meeting and this becoming public was just way too short. I have to agree and disagree. I agree that the process to follow needed to be discussed. I disagree that starting the mailing list was a bad idea. It was the best idea. The mistakes made, as I see it are announcing the standard and insisting it had already been voted on, calling all suggestions "bike shedding" and insisting that everyone is simply getting in the way of progress towards a standard (implicitly or explicitly, this was said). > Unfortunately as you know Greg, sometimes a group or even a single > person has to just make a decision, for better or worse. Yes, and this should be a last resort, because most problems eventually present a solution that satisfies when considered openly. Only the thorniest ones require an eventual executive decision. Greg