RE: [PHP4BETA] Re: [PHP3] RE: [PHP4BETA] Marketing Plan was Re: [PHP4BETA] Helpcraft PHP description

Hi Alex, The site list on PHP.NET is limited in that it consists only of sites voluntarily submitted by someone. Compare this with the Netcraft.co.uk statistics on web servers, for instance, where they have been crawling and tracking web server software and versions, among other things, independent of volunteer effort by respective site designers. In fact, Netcraft itself also tracks PHP-enabled web hosts, using the Apache header PHP reference. However, as a quick check will reveal, many serious, paranoid web admins have ensured that the PHP header, for that matter often even the Apache release version, are not revealed in the header. Look at www.netphoto.org, or www.ICIIndia.com, both former clients, both heavily PHP-dependent. Thus, all those hosts appear as non-PHP in a HTTP-header survey, thus skewing the survey AGAINST the professional, high-end sites, which are the very ones consultants would like to project as examples! So, I guess one needs to devise a more insiduous PHP detection procedure. Preferably a fool-proof crawler that sends some kind of query? I know, a flurry of privacy concerns will ensue, but it's worth a try, eh? Another point: IIS hosts with PHP/ISAPI, and all other httpd software where PHP runs as a CGI, will require a different strategy, as the HTTP header will reveal nothing. Your _HUMAN EDITED REPOSITORY_ hits the nail on the head. I would go so far as to say, INTERESTED-PARTY-EDITED. That way, the annotations and classifications would make life much easier for any consultant preparing a client presentation brief! Of course, if the respective tech teams were to volunteer additional information on a per- site basis, everyone would gain. So, is a skeleton project in the making on this front? Warm Regards --- Anindo Ghosh anindo@bigfoot.com ICQ # 13337584 -----Original Message----- From: Alex Black [mailto:enigma@turingstudio.com] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 2:29 AM To: anindo@bigfoot.com; php4beta@lists.php.net; Php3@Lists. Php. Net Subject: [PHP4BETA] Re: [PHP3] RE: [PHP4BETA] Marketing Plan was Re: [PHP4BETA] Helpcraft PHP description > Obviously they are getting lots of good feeding and > nurturing from the publicity mills of the respective > product companies. Good for them, but it's come to a > stage where consultants like me can save a lot of time, > effort and Pepto-Bismol in the long run by putting in > a concerted effort by just combining our forces, > putting together all the stuff we've researched and > written up, and all the cooked up or real statistics > we've used in client presentations. <STEP 1> That site list on php.net is useless, unfortunately... if you have a look at more.com, they did everything in php. also, note that apache _DOES_ respond with a header: X-Powered-By PHP/3.0.15 that almost no one would go to the trouble of turning off. I would _LOVE_ to have stats as to large websites running php'd apache :) I just put up a site called localmusic.com We did a full port from CF, which was completely screwing them it was so slow. But I definitely had my problems. There is _very little_ actual commercial experience out there that is documented, and I would like to be a part of changing that. I think open source is the way to go. Why build a calendar app anew for every client? Why, in fact, should _ANYONE_ have to build one from scratch if someone has already made one? Wouldn't our time be better used building client-specific applications, and not stupid little widgets? > The next hurdle I come up with is "Show me a competing > site that uses PHP". Oops! An amazing number of sites > have URLs with extensions like "phtml", "xhtml" and so > on - Yes, even one of my clients uses "zhtml" extensions > on their PHP pages because they do not want to let their > competition know they're using PHP! see above :) > Therefore: Is there a reliable way of accumulating stats > on big-name commercial sites using PHP? Not the mavericks, > as they dobn't hold much water with the hard core > commercial blokes. Is there a sneaky way of determining > that some "advanced_query.htmx" is actually PHP? <STEP 2> see above, again :) > Of course, such gathered stats need to be organized by > business, by country, and by brand recognition (which > seems to be by far the most important consideration), so > that we consultants can quickly look up sites in the > specific segment a given client belongs to. It'll grow, > over time, but we've got to start. PHPHoo seems like a > good categorization tool, and it's written in PHP too! > Is anyone ready to set this up? A PHP Detection crawler, > a PHPHoo directory, and a automatic reporting tool (eg. > The Following B2B Metal Exchanges use PHP today...) are > what we need on this front <STEP 3> well, yes. one could do that with a bit more complex spider.... > Now, the last major stumbling block: "Okay, we'll try out > PHP, but what big-name PHP training courses do you > recommend? And where do we source the 35 developers, 4 > project leaders, 2 coordinators we need ASAP?" Well, this is a bit of a problem. It is not as bad as one might initially think (dread), because php is very standard about its syntax, so picking it up is laughably easy. try learning perl in 3 days. eghgehegehg. However, true php masters are hard to come by, and expensive. That is unfortunate. > Okay, so someone ought to be setting up a PHP skill pool, > a skill exchange or meatmarket even. "We'll bid $1000 a > day for each of those 15 PHP devs, as long as they have > expertise-level ratings of BB or BB+". <STEP 4> hell yes :) > I'm volunteering my time on each of the above STEPs 1-4, > and it would be good to hear of another few STEPs to > really make it bulletproof to recommend PHP to any new > client, whenever appropriate. Any other takers? I would like to build a human-edited repository for: -knowledge about PHP in large scale projects -code snippits & complete apps that are _standardized_ so they all work together... I'm not talking about some open board where people can post crappy code (I am _so_ tired of echo "<table border=\"0\">";), I'm talking about getting a group of volunteer developers together to build a module on top of a generalized "framework" design for site building. -system design and implementation resources... for example: knowledge about oracle8i on linux, recommended configurations for running PHP-driven webserver clusters, techniques for dealing with database connections and cursor management, etc. -people. talent.... resumes, jobs, contractors, etc ------------- Other activities I'd like to be a part of: -publishing whitepapers (yes, it's cheesy, but it _works_.. hand someone some hoo-ha whitepaper they can read and it will shut them up.) about building scalable web applications with PHP. -publishing a monthly report on activity in the PHP world, only as it related to medium to large scale projects. case studies, techniques, etc. I'd like to see this language beat ASP into the ground. "who's your daddy? PHP yo daddy" .... does that sound interesting to people? a "professional" resource for php developers. That is not to say that the existing community stuff itn's great (it is) but I am in need of a more "paid-developer" kind of community whose members are interested in creating and maintaining a large, free, set of resources for all. would anyone like to participate? Anindo: sounds good to me :) best, _alex > --- > Anindo Ghosh > anindo@bigfoot.com > -- Alex Black, Head Monkey enigma@turingstudio.com The Turing Studio, Inc. http://www.turingstudio.com vox+510.666.0074 fax+510.666.0093 Saul Zaentz Film Center 2600 Tenth St Suite 433 Berkeley, CA 94710-2522 -- PHP 4.0 Beta Mailing List <http://www.php.net/version4/> To unsubscribe, e-mail: php4beta-unsubscribe@lists.php.net For additional commands, e-mail: php4beta-help@lists.php.net To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php4beta-admin@lists.php.net