RE: [PHP-GTK] what is going on with gtk.php.net?

Hi Michael, This really belongs on the development list .. or should at least be copied to there IMHO. php-gtk-dev@lists.php.net - Steph > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Vergoz [mailto:descript@php.net] > Sent: 16 July 2004 16:32 > To: steph@zend.com > Cc: Rhys Campbell; PHP-GTK Mailing List (E-mail) > Subject: Re: [PHP-GTK] what is going on with gtk.php.net? > > > Hello > > I would like to make a few comments and raise a few questions > PHP is a software enabling access to a function reference base base > organised by groups. > Ex. Database : MySQL, PgSQL, Oracle >   > As far as I know there is no stand alone php mysql project > Why PHP GTK would be one ? > Why shouldn’t we think of a wrapper system that would run with GTK1, 2, > Cocoa, Carbon and maybe Windows UI ? > Why shouldn’t we call this project PHP-UI ? > Indeed I have been working for six months on a wrapper system, up to > now, I have drawn what would be necessary to make it > My point is not to discuss what has been done up to now, I just think > that PHP could have a bigger impact on final developpers. In addition, > it would make doc creation easier > > I may be wrong but I am open to comments > If you find it fine, I will dedicate some time to work on this subject. > > Regards > -mike > > > On 16 juil. 04, at 16:26, Steph wrote: > > > Rhys: we already _have_ a centrally managed effort.. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rhys Campbell [mailto:rhys.campbell@da-systems.co.uk] > >> Sent: 16 July 2004 13:07 > >> To: PHP-GTK Mailing List (E-mail) > >> Subject: RE: [PHP-GTK] what is going on with gtk.php.net? > >> > >> > >> OK, seems like not many people are with me on this. The ants > >> anology is good, but like ants I think people will tend to leave > >> the not so sweet parts. Anyway this post has generated a lot of > >> traffic so there's obviously a lot of interest in the issue. I > >> think the idea of a cenrally managed effort is a good one, but > >> you may be right about it not getting used. Bit sad really as you > >> can see the good Sun have done on the documentation for Java (a > >> rival of PHP-GTK????). I'll start thinking about what I can do > >> this weekend and stop pestering this list with my rantings. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Rhys > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Steph [mailto:steph@zend.com] > >> Sent: 16 July 2004 12:23 > >> To: Rhys Campbell; PHP-GTK Mailing List (E-mail) > >> Subject: RE: [PHP-GTK] what is going on with gtk.php.net? > >> > >> > >>> Obviously I'm not saying throw away the present manual there is a > >>> lot of useful information there. But the old saying goes "Too > >>> many cooks spoil the broth.". What I'm saying is that central > >>> management of the documentation is needed to be effective, i.e. > >>> you look at this widget and document all \ or many of its > >>> properties, methods ect according to these guidlines \ standards, > >>> formal methods, or whatever. This work could then be submitted to > >>> a project leader(s) for review which would then be passed back > >>> for corrections or included into the manual. I'm sure, like > >>> myself, many have busy lives but if we work with common aims on > >>> this I think it can be done. Having people randomly work on > >>> sections will not produce a coherant manual - central management > >>> and review is the key. > >> > >> Getting any material at all would be pretty key from where I'm > >> standing :) > >> > >> The more complex the process, the less likely you are to see anyone > >> going > >> through with it. 'Having people randomly work on sections' is > >> _exactly_ > >> what the php.net manual guys do; OSS documentation, like OSS > >> anything else, > >> is better demonstrated by watching a nest-ful of ants retrieve a > >> teaspoonful > >> of sugar than by anything else I can think of. There's already > >> control > >> there, in the form of other users, in the form of user notes, and in > >> the > >> form of peer review (quite a few people have CVS karma for the > >> manual, but > >> most of them are translators rather than initiators). It's much > >> easier to > >> get information corrected than it is to get information there in the > >> first > >> place; witness this list, and the amount of flak the PHP-GTK > >> manual's taken > >> over the years for incompleteness, versus the amount of people who > >> have > >> contributed original material to it. It's always easier to criticise > >> existing work than it is to produce any. > >> > >> At php.net nowadays, the docs team request that new functionality > >> (and new > >> extensions) are initially documented by the person that wrote that > >> functionality or extension. This isn't an option we have here; > >> Andrei's > >> contributed a couple of classes to the manual (and it took him a lot > >> less > >> time than it would've taken me), but we can hardly ask him to > >> document 100+ > >> classes in his spare time. Even if he had any. He automated what he > >> could > >> and left the rest for people to fill in. In other words, at present - > >> still - if there are no signals and no properties outlined in a > >> PHP-GTK > >> class, it's safe to say that that class has never been touched by > >> anyone > >> writing documentation. > >> > >> I should maybe make the secondary point that the GTK+ 1.2.* project > >> itself > >> had the same documentation problems we face here. That manual was > >> never > >> completed either. The documentation for GTK 2 is similarly generated > >> but > >> was better thought through, with the developers getting involved to > >> introduce new concepts. > >> > >> I'm blathering. Sorry :) but all this stuff does need thinking about > >> before anyone goes to the trouble of setting up an environment that > >> won't > >> get used, or a second manual, or anything along similar lines. > >> > >> - Steph > >> > >> -- > >> PHP-GTK General Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/) > >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >> > > > > -- > > PHP-GTK General Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/) > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > >