Re: Function caching...

At 20:04 9/12/2000, Björn Schotte wrote:

1-4.): is it only marketing blabla?

Well, mission statements are always controlled by marketing :)

2.)/3.): how does Zend wants to be a leader in the development and added-value services for application development and in increasing the productivity of _big_ sites if the main developers, namely Zeev Suraski, don't want to accept that things like a _real_ PHP application server is really a thing the PHP community needs _NOW_, not in 250 years? Do they want to play clowns?

I haven't said this. I'll say what I think again, last time hopefully. 1. There's no such thing as a 'real application server', because there's no definition for an application server (don't bother coming up with a definition, since there I can come up with 20 others which are just as good). 2. PHP's design is not at flaw for not addressing the concerns Kristian was talking about in his lengthy letters. It's not designed to do this, it's designed to do something else, and it's doing that other thing very successfully, which made it the most popular Web environment for UNIX today. Employing Kristians suggestions basically mean PHP will no longer be PHP, and while Kristian and you may be very happy, it's safe to assume that the vast majority of users, which don't necessarily agree with Kristian/your development rules, would be at loss. 3. The fact that PHP won't become *your* definition of an application server, which it won't, doesn't mean people or companies can't publish components that complement, extend or reuse parts of PHP, and create new environments that address the concerns raised in Kristian's lengthy letters. PHP/Zend is not a commercial product. To go beyond that - there isn't even a product by that name. There is PHP 4.0, which is an opensource project, to which Zend Tech contributes a lot, but it doesn't control it by any means. Zend Tech will be releasing commercial products that would work in the environment of PHP, just as other companies may do.

4.): how do they want to promot PHP as a _standard_ for dynamic web site development if PHP doesn't fill the needs of today's problems?

Just because you say it doesn't, doesn't mean it doesn't. The numbers speak for themselves, and they're proving your wrong on a daily basis. Did you ever consider the possibility that it may be that you're going the wrong way?

Do they really want PHP to be a 08/15 script engine that is only needed for some db acces, formular validation or do they really want to promote PHP as a standard that pushes away other systems like WebObjects, Java, ...?

Well, you have to go back to the definition of the PHP project, and remind yourself all the time that PHP is not Zend's toy. So in theory, even if I agreed with you that PHP's design is faulty and we should say 'screw the average user, let's create an enterprise-oriented-only language', I wouldn't have been able to convince the rest of the PHP developers to do that, and I'm happy it's that way. Especially as I disagree with you and believe that PHP's design should remain as it is. I'm not sure how many times I repeated this today, but here's another one: - PHP's design is not faulty, and should/will remain intact. - Components that complement, extend or reuse parts of PHP are very likely to come out in the future, that would address various concerns you had. They will do that without chopping down the branch we're all sitting on. Zeev -- Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> CTO, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/