Re: Re: [metabase-dev] MDB news

Hello, On 09/09/2002 03:46 AM, Björn Schotte wrote:

of view, but one thing you may be certain, I care for PHP and I try my best so it can gain the best acceptance possible because ultimately that will benefit everybody that uses and supports PHP.

What are you doing for the benefit of PHP? And please

I am doing less than I wished for the lack of time and also because I am often boycotted. I don't have to prove myself. Either you see me with good faith or there is nothing for me to tell you.

don't tell me about phpclasses.

And what is it really your problem against PHP Classes site? I believe in cooperation and that is what that site is about. Often I can see that people that b*tch against the PHP Classes are those that have decided on their own to exclude themselves from participating in it. It is their choice, so it is their problem. Just one example: recently I offered to advertise at not cost the PHP-Con conference that is going to be held in the US soon. I believe that it is an important event for the PHP community in North America and the improvement of PHP credibility world wide. I don't know if that will help much, but I figure that 500,000 full banner views may help leading some attendants more to the conference. Some time ago, I made the same offer to you to promote PHP Conference in Germany because I think it is a good thing to cooperate in the event that you are doing to promote the PHP community Germany and near countries. Oddly I did not get a response from you. Either you did not notice the message or you do not want me to help you. If you are interested, the offer to cooperate is still up. If not, I don't care because I can't be bothered to help somebody that does not want me to do it. This offer preceeded by far your questioning of what I have done for PHP , so you can't tell me that I am not doing nothing, or at least I do not try.

Trying to use soft words will get you nowhere because people will not

That's a really imature point of view. Trying to be aggressive (and "PEAR elitists" _is_ aggressive) may be funny (usually I

If you think it is aggressive, you missed my point. Maybe being an elitist means something else in your mind than in mine. My point is to provide feedback about the way people are seeing PEAR. If you think that is just me, go and read the comp.lang.php thread about why people do not want to use PEAR. I intentionally excluded myself from participating in that thread so you can see exactly what people think without my influence in the thread.

like those things), but it's not true thinking using these words will change anything in the heads of the developers.

I would not be that sure.

while, you will understand that what I am looking up for the greatest acceptance that PHP can get as you do.

To be honest, I have sometimes the impression that you're looking up for the greatest acceptance of phpclasses and not of PHP itself. ;-)

How come that it is a problem for you? If that was named JavaClasses or dotnetclasses, I could understand you would be worried. Do you feel threatned by the PHP Classes site?

fact that the current PEAR rules that were defined by a small elite of self-elected individuals, keep out many developers.

I think that's only half true. If you remember some of my very old postings here on the list, I also had concerns about those rules (i.e. tabbing etc.). But on the other side I think every professional developer should be able to adapt to coding guidelines that are defined. If not, he is possibly not keen enough.

Professional developers abide to rules of the company they work for. However PEAR is not a company and developers do not have change their style to be able to contribute for free. Demanding people to bend and become less productive to be allowed to contribute is a very ungrateful posture. You make it sound as if developers have the duty to conform to rules that they are not paid to work by, as if they are obligated to contribute. Since they are not obligated to contribute at all, obviously you will see a lot of qualified developers refusing to contribute. Do you think that is a good thing for the sake of one style only?

Therefore those individuals are elitists.

Only from the POV that you and your opinion is right. But, what if is wrong? Who will then be the elitist?

This is not an opinion, it is a fact. Try to understand what being elitist mean so you can see that it applies to the PEAR people. Notice that: - The rules were defined by a small number of people: an elite. - The rules were not subject of approval by any democratic process. - The rules serve the purposes that those few that defined them in the sense that they effectively exclude other developers that could contribute with superior packages that would make obsolete other packages from the few that defined the rules. -- Regards, Manuel Lemos