Re: Re: [RFC] [Draft] Adopt Code of Conduct

Le 07/01/2016 21:50, Zeev Suraski a écrit :

-----Original Message----- From: Anthony Ferrara [mailto:ircmaxell@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2016 8:15 PM To: internals@lists.php.net Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [Draft] Adopt Code of Conduct All, On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com> wrote: There has been some discussion asking for a split of the RFC into two. I do not believe that this is a good idea, because the CoC is useless without some sort of resolution strategy (without *anything*). And if we do need to do something (which I firmly believe), then why not do it right the first time. I am more than willing to evolve this proposal significantly (it's no where near a final form). This discussion should help it evolve.

First, I firmly believe that having a CoC - without anything extra - is anything but useless. Values go a long way. Telling people what you expect of them isn't only the first step towards obtaining that behavior - it's by far the most important step. I suspect anybody who has kids (or that has a reasonably fresh memory of being a kid himself) should be able to vouch for that, and again, I'm bringing up the thesis that the vast majority of us here follow the law not because we're afraid of what would happen if we don't - but because it's the right thing to do. Secondly, if we do want to add an extra layer, having a resolution strategy does not have to include penalties - neither proposed ones nor the jurisdiction to impose ones. If the RFC stopped at structuring how people can bring up issues and have them discussed and mediated, I doubt the RFC would be nearly as controversial as it is right now. The problems begin as soon as we try to create some sort of a mini-judicial-body, that has substantial powers, governs based on loosely written rules, has zero tools and experience in getting to the bottom of things or determining the truth between two or more quarrelling parties. Thinking we can do that when we failed agreeing on infinitely simpler things is remarkably optimistic. I disagree we NEED to do something. PHP is not in a situation where it's in an absolute need of a CoC, and the fact it's thriving without one and that nobody appears to be coming up with examples as to why we must have one beyond future-proofing attests to that. Yes, it's not perfect - but as Stas said, that RFC isn't a magic wand that would make it perfect. That said, I think adopting a CoC is a good idea, much like I teach my daughters what's right and what's wrong without telling them what would happen if they don't follow my guidance. Whenever I have to resort to penalties (which I'm happy to say rarely happens) - I've failed, and I virtually always regret it. I'm still interested in hearing more about the four explicit threats of violence you mentioned.

Zeev, thanks for expressing exactly what I think about it, especially the fact that having a law, without a police to enforce it, is anything but useless. Of course, if explicit threats of physical violence have been issued in the past, I may switch my mind, so that it cannot happen again. But I've seen no evidence yet. Regards François